Debate 5 on Masturbation Forum Inkaboutit Reply
Rebuttal to: http://www.xicom.com/bethany_bible/various/lambhtml/mast.htm
http://inkaboutit4u.com/?p=Debate_5_on_Masturbation_Forum_Inkaboutit_Reply
(compare to http://www.ldolphin.org/Mast.shtml) Red print is my (inkaboutit) replies to the above web site.
Masturbation And The Bible
Medical textbooks prior to the 18th Century seldom mentioned masturbation at all. In 1758 a Swiss physician named Tissot published a treatise claiming that masturbation* was the principle cause of mental illness---a terrible sin to be avoided like the plague. In spite of many rebuttals and critiques by contemporaries, Tissot's views became a standard reference found in most all medical textbooks published until the early part of our century.
Work In Process--I am putting all my inkaboutit.homestead web pages onto http://inkaboutit4u.com
My New Web Site is: http://inkaboutit4u.com
Reply: All lies. These, partly, are the lies that caused some to conclusion that masturbation was a sin or was bad for you.
http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/index6.html Has a lots of web sites to answer any anti-masturbation persons concerns. Christians leaders, Bible verses, history, medical facts, personal stories, and many other facts to answer all your questions.
Is Masturbation a sin? Or is masturbation a gift of God? Read my debate with Rev Dr Sir Randy Kemp on the forum. (I’m Tom or inkaboutit) http://www.voy.com/51042/3016.html http://www.voy.com/51042/3026.html
A Reply to an anti-masturbation web site.-- Is masturbation a sin? http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/masturbationreplywebsite3.html
Letter To Anti-masturbation teachers. I can clearly show you that with your anti-masturbation teaching that you are harming and hurting God, others, and yourself. http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/masturbationlettertoanti.html
The Cause for a great deal of the sexual negativity in our culture. When did sex became bad? http://thinkaboutit.homestead.com/gnotic.html
Who, when, and How Sex Was Made A Sin?? http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/madesin.html
The false Gnostic ideal that sex was a sin or evil was forced into the Christian thinking and is kept there by taking the Bible verses out of context.
Secular medical authorities nowadays universally proclaim that masturbation is physiologically harmless and that it may even be a normal, natural form of release. Physiologically there seems to be no harm in masturbating, though most psychology text book writers admit that associated guilt and shame afflict millions, especially during adolescence. This guilt is usually blamed on strict and legalistic religious upbringing and Victorian prudishness about sex. Textbooks on human sexuality seem to all go to great length to explain away the guilt that results from illicit sex, and thus many of these secular writers end of writing polemics against the Bible and openly endorsing hedonistic living that is in reality pagan.
Because the Bible says nothing specific on the subject, Christian counseling books vary in their approach in dealing with masturbation. Few Christian youth pastors or psychologists are willing to endorse masturbation as normal and natural, however a minority are willing to suggest that self stimulation can provide a release from excessive tension when one is single. "Better masturbation than excessive obsession with sex," they say, "and better masturbating than risking a fall into more serious sexual immorality involving another person." The Bible does not suggest such a rationalization, however---in 1 Cor. 7:9 the Apostle Paul cites marriage as God's alternative to "burning with passion."
Reply: Also in Corinth they were married at puberty (not 10 years later)
There are 2 types of passion. Sexual intercourse is only required for the second burning passion. That is want of sexual intercourse for human touch and intimacy contact and become one flesh with another. The basic passion is for basic sexual tension release of build up sexual tension which can be taken care of by way of masturbation or sexual intercourse. Masturbation has been going on since Adam and Eve. This not something that just started to happen.
Since scripture does not specifically name masturbation as a sin, some claim masturbation is evidently not critically important as compared, say, to fornication. This argument is not conclusive since the word "fornication" (porneia) is a broad word in the New Testament, actually encompassing all forms of sexual immorality.
Reply: Masturbation is not a form of sexual immorality. Sexual immorality related to man relating sexual to others not to him or herself in "Solo Sex" or sexual stress tension release.
Youth pastors also know from counseling experience that masturbation is often a huge source of guilt and anxiety for many Christian young men. Therefore they feel the problem is best dealt with by reassurance of God's grace and forgiveness and by focusing on spiritual growth to the end that the individual moves on to spiritual and emotional maturity, leaving masturbation behind as a symptom of spiritual immaturity.
Reply: Masturbation is a basic need, not a symptom of spiritual immaturity. That like saying eating food, or going to the toilet, or meeting many other basic needs are symptoms of spiritual immaturity.
Counselors who work with adolescents also sympathetically recognize that masturbation can be a tenacious habit not easily overcome---a habit only made worse by prohibitions, stern warnings or a critical, judgmental attitude. Vows to quit masturbating seem always to fail and cold showers are sometimes to no avail.
Reply: Same result of failure, if you tried to stop any other basic need. Just that this basic need is not the same for all people.
Masturbation can become obsessive to some, producing endless guilt and self- consciousness in young sufferers who find they can not overcome the habit by their own self-effort. Some young people may even feel they are committing the unpardonable sin.
Reply: This shame and guilt is man made and man taught. A Learned behavior. Small children don't have it until they are taught.
Masturbation often goes unresolved for many years, perhaps as a "secret sin," until the desperate sufferer gets up the courage to share with a fellow-Christian or a pastor. Many married men admit to masturbating surprisingly often, even when they also claim to be enjoying a happy marriage and normal sex life with their partners.
Sharing the secrets of one's defeats in masturbation with a trusted Christian brother, mentor, or accountability group usually brings a real sense of relief and helps the person to be more objective about himself and his place in the world.
Reply: Survey show that the 97% masturbate including Godly Christians. Because of the lack of true information and ignorance some people think they are the only one that masturbated. Then when they find out that 97% masturbate then this is great relief to them.
All of us are sinners and we are only sinners who have been justified by God and made---by
grace---worthy members of the kingdom of God. False guilt and self-condemnation (especially in "shame-based" individuals) surely is more serious source of defeat for some people than their true moral guilt before God who is gracious and full of mercy. "As a Father pities his children, so the Lord pities those who fear him. For he knows our frame; he remembers that we are dust." (Ps. 103:13, 14)
Reply: We have a sin nature but that does not mean that masturbation is a sin. The sin nature is talked about in Galatians 5 , fruits of the sin nature, which does not include masturbation. Most sins are related to how we relate to others and God.
Although the Old Testament records the sexual failures of a number of men and women there are non- sexual sins that are more serious in the eyes of God, though they usually get less attention than sexual failures (see for example Proverbs 6:16-19). For instance, Jesus was merciful and compassionate towards a woman caught in the act of adultery, but he was scathing in his devastating rebukes of the arrogant self-righteousness of the Pharisees.
Most Christian writers on Biblical mores and ethics point to the words of Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount (Matt. 5:27-20) where the Lord teaches that it is possible for a person to commit sexually immoral acts in one's fantasy life. The thoughts and intentions of the heart can be very important and as implicating as outward acts.
Although deliberately feeding on lustful thoughts and acting them out in one's mind is "already adultery" in the heart, according to Jesus, temptation which is not acted upon is not constitute sin. As an old Proverb says, "One can not prevent the birds from flying over one's head, but one can keep them from building a nest in one's hair." When the factor of fantasies is added into the equation of masturbation there is no doubt we are now referring to fornication and sexual uncleanness. One can no longer claim that masturbation is a "gray area."
JTCL said:4) Masturbation almost always leads to fantasies. Sow a fantasy.. reap an act.
My reply: All these web site listed below, talk about fantasies. Also remember you have many fantasies that you don't think are sinful. Just because you have faulty programming of the past does not mean what you think is always 100% correct. Sexual fantasies are 100% normal for any red hot blooded males including very Godly Christians. It is built in to our nature. If you condemn normal healthy sexual fantasies, then you have to condemn every person in the world everyday, almost every few hours, of their life, both Christian
and non-Christian. Including yourself.
Matt. 5:28 is totally misunderstood and taken out of context. "look at a women with lust...adultery" http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/Lustmt528.html
Is masturbation a sin, or a Gift of God? http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/highlight2.html
Instead of trying to stop people from mastur-bating, the church should be encouraging them to do so. Christian minister David McKay*Part of: http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/ProMinister.html
Solo Sex and the Bible. Wonderful benefits and a Gift from God.(masturbation) (Many links) http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/solo.html
Advantages of MASTURBATION By Ph.D Albert Ellis (50 Advantages) 5 pages of Sexual Advantages, Emotional Advantages, Healthful Advantages, Relational Advantages, and others. http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/mmadvantages50.html
Modern Sex Research Says This About MASTURBATION 23 Benefits By Manfred F. Martino a College Professor. http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/mmadvantages23.html
Why is MASTURBATION so Popular. Page 14 - 15 reasons. http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/mapopular.html
http://inkaboutit4u.com/?p=Masturbation_Why_Is_It_So_Popular
The Healing Power of Sex. Celibacy can be hazardous to your health. http://www.libchrist.com/sexed/healing.html
Masturbation is required http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/mmrequired.html
Solo Ejaculations Maintain Healthy Prostate For Men http://www.proaxis.com/~solo/prost.htm
MASTURBATION has a lot Going for it http://www.proaxis.com/~solo/120798d.htm
Compares some of the characteristics of sin and of masturbation. Is MASTURBATION a sin? Or a gift from God. Compare and find your own conclusion. http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/macompare.html
Is Masturbation Healthy? http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/maryhealthy.html
Ask The Healthy Devil SUBJECT: Masturbation Posted: November 22, 1996 QUESTION: I have been masturbating for at least once a week for the past few years. May I know whether this good for my health or would it affect my future ... http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/mahealthdevil.html
In actual fact, masturbation is virtually always closely connected with lustful thought life. Pornography is everywhere in today's society, suggestive TV programs and films laced liberally with sexual promiscuity and implicit sex can only be avoided with difficulty. Advertisements and a spirit of sensuality barrage the mind constantly in today's sexually permissive society severely aggravating the problem of gaining and maintaining purity and personal holiness as a Christian. Many individuals who masturbate will admit that they use pornography, photographs or sexually suggestive stories to heighten the pleasure and vicarious enjoyment of sex.
Reply: Masturbation is not adultery or fornication. It is normal and natural to have a healthy sex drive and sexual desires and to be attracted to the opposite sex for sexual reasons. God built it into the design.
All of these are, in reality, forms of idolatry involving the worship of another person, or the worship of sex itself, rather than God. An individual whose life is centered around
fantasies is not likely to do well when attempting to relate with a real flesh-and-blood marriage partner and the demands of adult life.
Reply: Having sexual need for sexual stress tension release is a basic need not idolatry. Or enjoying sexuality is not idolatry. Just because you see beauty in something does not mean that you are worshipping it as if it was a God.
"Jesus was condemning...those fantasies in which we see ourselves possessing that which we are not allowed to have. He is condemning those fantasies in which we manipulative people in our minds in ways that will appeal to and satisfy the lust of our imagination. Whether it be a forbidden partner or a forbidden sexual practice, we must be aware of the fact that the mind is capable of endless perversions" (Ref. 1, page 119).
Reply: It is normal and natural to have a healthy sex drive and sexual desires and to be attracted to the opposite sex for sexual reasons. God built it into the design. Fantasies are a normal and natural part of a healthy sex drive. We have "made believe" in all parts of our life which we accept as normal, healthy and fun. We encourage this in children's play. We made "made believe" goals and dream for the future. But only when it come to sexuality do we declare it to be wrong. God built it into our design.
In those cases where masturbating is used occasionally to relieve what seem to be unbearable sexual pressures, then eliminating fantasies is certainly one step in the right direction. Many Christian young people can not imagine Jesus Christ loving them deeply enough to help them overcome the shame of their masturbation. Thus masturbation is not an area of one's life where Jesus is welcome---it is usually private and secret. Excluding Jesus from any area of our lives is of course risky since we are then left in darkness and in bondage to sin in one form or another. This is because "Anything not based on faith is sin."
Reply: This is man made shame and guilt based on a lot of lies and lack of understanding.
To be more objective, the Bible is clear that sexual activity is always wrong outside of marriage.
Reply: Not masturbation.
Yet today's society promotes, encourages, and teaches young people to explore their sexuality and to become active in early adolescence. Biblical values have been overwhelmed and cast aside in most all schools today with the result that a whole generation has becoming openly pagan and promiscuous. This tragic, terrible state of affairs is associated with a breakdown in family ties and widespread divorce. It is therefore very difficult for Christian men and women who are not yet married to stay clear of sexual experimentation, pornography, and peer
pressure to get involved.
Reply: This has nothing to do with masturbation. Masturbation actually helps the Godly Christian to prevent sexual sins and temptations.
Claims that all forms of sexual expression are normal, healthy, natural, and desirable may be fraudulent and false, but they are widely accepted today. In this environment modesty, chastity, purity and celibacy are virtually never discussed---yet they are paramount values in a Biblical view of godliness and spirituality.
Reply: "All forms" I thought this paper was concerned with masturbation and the Bible only. He is getting off the subject.
The fact that masturbation is "encouraged" as normal and healthy by a majority of educators and secular leaders today definitely does not mean that the majority viewpoint is the correct one---the opposite is more likely to be true.
Reply: Where are the facts?
In overcoming the excessively inhibited sexual mores of an early generation, the sexual revolution has obviously gone completely over board in the direction of total moral looseness, unrestrained hedonism and unbelievable promiscuity. Billy Graham's wife, Ruth Bell Graham, has well said, "If God doesn't judge America for her immorality, he will have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah."
Reply: Nothing at all about masturbation. He is getting off the subject again.
The fall of man in the Garden of Eden was a fall into self-centeredness.
Reply: Who said? They were told "not to" they did.
Our fallen natures are today often infected with lust and covetousness and envy. Our minds are easily programmed by TV, movies, and even school textbooks---all of which now bombard us with sensual images and antichristian values from the cradle to the grave.
Reply: Masturbation has been around since Adam and Eve.
It is plain to see that masturbation is usually narcissistic. Narcissus was the Greek youth who, upon seeing his reflection in a pool, fell in love with himself, then fell into the pool and drowned. In other generations masturbation was called self-abuse, solo-sex, self-love, or self-gratification. The emphasis is on "self," not on one's relationship with God or one's family.
Reply: Masturbation mostly meets a basic need, just like eating food and going to the bathroom, etc.
We can surely say the "solo-sex" is not part of God's original design for man which is for sexual expression in the context of love and commitment in a marriage.
Reply: This is false and man made statement.
The following is more man made statements and faulty conclusions.
Reply: For comment about the following check web page: Theological Arguments Against Masturbation http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/Arguments.html
Masturbation can never be fulfilling and satisfying since it is inherently an incomplete act to which there is no response or appropriate answer-back from a complementary partner. Masturbation also tends to turn one's focus inward upon oneself, leading to shame, sometimes excessive introversion, often low self-esteem, self- consciousness and detachment from normal social roles.
Reply: False. He made this up on the fly. Where is the research? Research show much different.
God did not design sex to be a solitary experience. It is supposed to be shared with another, and only in marriage. Sexuality is intended to be part of the complementary interaction of self-giving love between a man and a woman who are committed to one another for life. (See 1 Cor. 7:4 where the Bible states that husband and wife are to give up the right to their own bodies to one another in marriage). Within marriage the dynamic interplay between opposites can bring healing and wholeness for both the man and his wife. Sexual expression in any other context is destructive to wholeness. The Bible certainly shows that God is not against pleasure, He wants us to say "no" to things that hurt us.
http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/MarriageBed.html Talks about 1 Cor. 7:4
Reply: That's when Lori and (Paul) REALLY started to pray and study about it; when it's your kids, saying "I'm not sure, so don't do it" just don't cut it! After a lot of study of both the Bible and the biology, and a lot of prayer, we came to the mutual conclusion that masturbation was not wrong for singles; in fact we came to the realization it was a good thing because it could help them stay away from fornication.
...Lori found some excerpts from Patsy Rae Dawson's book "Why God's People Make the Best Lovers". (I'll post a link to it later.) She has a different take on the authority over spouses body found in 1 Cor 7:4. She explains that the scripture uses a Greek word combination known as an ellipsis, a comparison of two things which are both true, but one has the priority. In other words, we have power over our own sexuality, but our spouse has GREATER power. With regards to masturbation this suggest that husbands and wives can masturbate as long as doing so does not cheat their spouse sexually. I'll admit that this idea was uncomfortable for me, and still is to some extent, but having studied it, I can find no fault with her reasoning.
So, I am forced to conclude that it's not a sin for a married person to masturbate. I must also conclude that it's not necessarily a sign of a problem in the marriage.
Because sexual activity results in pleasure, sexual habits such as masturbation are become conditioned responses that are reinforced with repetition. In a society where instant gratification is the goal of many, few of our contemporaries think in terms of self-control or long term fulfillment. Unlike hunger or other purely physical desires, human sexual response encompasses body, soul, and spirit. Without food and water man can not live, but living without sexual expression does no harm and can often be of great benefit because it allows libidinal energy to be refocused into socially redeeming activities.
Reply: Research shows the lack of masturbation does harm you. Cancer, death, suicide, blockage, built up stress, and a lot more problems (Many healthy benefit for those that have guilt free masturbation no negative consequence accept man made guilt and shame.)
Abstinence and celibacy have always been prized by the church as healthy and desirable before marriage, and normative for singles. In the personal experience of countless pastors and counselors in the church of Jesus Christ, men and women are always far better off if they remained sexually inactive until marriage,
Reply: Not talking about masturbation. 95% masturbate, so are these the 5% he is talking about.
and faithful to one's spouse thereafter. Countless married couples regret their premarital affairs and sexual expression prior to marriage because the effects show up later on in making marriage less than it ought to be.
Reply: Nothing at all about masturbation. He is getting off the subject again.
Sexual selfishness is more difficult to cure than a tendency to eat to much apple pie or roast beef and potatoes. Even if one were to decide that masturbation is not a specific sin named in the Bible that does not mean it is a neutral issue. In real life not all choices are between right and wrong, but often between degrees of good and better. We can surely say that overcoming masturbation is the better course to seek after.
Reply: False. Look at the facts. He made this up on the fly. Where is the research? Research show much different.
Unfortunately, once sexual desires are aroused it become difficult to reverse course and return to a celibate, virgin status. Regaining purity is, however, a requirement for Christian growth. In the Song of Solomon, the Shulamite maiden encourages the Daughters of Jerusalem to "stir not nor awaken love until it please," (i.e., until the proper time and place).
Reply: Nothing at all about masturbation. He is getting off the subject again.
Admittedly, sexual desires are most intense biologically speaking when we are young and not yet able to marry. The spiritual victory to be gained (with the help of the Lord Jesus) is one of self-control (1 Thess. 4:1-8)
Reply: Masturbation is no more the lack of self control as is urinating in a toilet or eating food. "Wet Dreams" are more of a lack of self control, similar to wetting your pants. I know no one that would say that if you had a wet dream or to wetting your pants, that you were sinning.
and an inner purity that constantly vitalizes one's intimate personal relationship with Jesus the Bridegroom of the church. The Song of Solomon gives us a good picture not only of marriage but also of our individual relationship with Jesus Christ seen as a discipleship of love (Ref 2). God is working in us to produce wholeness and well-roundedness, a self-giving life style not a self-centered one.
Reply: Meeting basic needs is not considered to be self-centered, but taking care of ourselves. Only if it was done at the expense or loss to another person. Like stealing bread from someone else to meet our need of hunger. Or, masturbating self, at the neglect of meeting your sponse's sexual needs in mutual sexual enjoyment.
Previous generations of Christian leaders taught that instinctual energies could be sublimated and rechanneled into productive and creative actions in the world.
Reply: Who? All I see is more like torture treatment instead.
This concept has largely disappeared in our time when the focus is on self, self-realization, and self-fulfillment.
Reply: Or maybe it is now against the law to torture people.
Taking all these things together it is difficult to build a case for masturbation as something which is innocuous, though it may be less serious a struggle for some as compared to others.
Reply: We have different sex drives.
Christian life is neither easy nor free from temptation and even stumbling, falling, failing and starting over. The aim of our lives should be to please God, and to do that we must deny the flesh, put to death our selfish desires, starve the appetites of our inner sensualities and lusts, and feed upon the Word of God. We need to develop close friends we can share secrets with and who will keep us accountable in our spiritual walk.
Reply: "Deny the flesh" related to Galatians 5 Fruits of the “sin principal”part of us as listed. Not masturbation or meeting our other basic needs. 1 Cor. 7:5 5 Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. Starvation of sin is good, but Starvation of sexual release by way of masturbation or sexual intercourse with your spouse, may cause great harm and may give Satan a foot hold into our life and cause us to be tempted to do sexual sins.
Remember they were married at puberty.
NIV Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
RSV Do not refuse one another except perhaps by agreement for a season, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, lest Satan tempt you through lack of self-control.
KJV Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
DBY Defraud not one another, unless, it may be, by consent for a time, that ye may devote yourselves to prayer, and again be together, that Satan tempt you not because of your incontinency.
YLT Defraud not one another, except by consent for a time, that ye may be free for fasting and prayer, and again may come together, that the Adversary may not tempt you because of your incontinence;
A number of passages in the New Testament are applicable to growing out of and overcoming masturbation as we seek single sightedness, with purity of heart and motive in following Jesus the Lord.
Reply: Quitting masturbation was written by the Church of LDS. The words typed in blue italics is A. Patcher opinions and are additions to the original text. http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/StopMaComment.html
"Do not yield your members to sin as instruments of wickedness, but yield yourselves to God as men who have been brought from death to life, and
your members to God as instruments of righteousness." (Rom. 6:13)
Reply: N/A. Masturbation is not a sin. But meets a basic need for sexual stress tension release. No more sinful then a back massage or eating food..
"...make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather be healed. Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord." (Heb.12:13,14)
N/A Sexuality is designed by a Holy and pure God. Sex is not "dirty" or "impure" or "unclean".
"But fornication and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is fitting among saints...Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for it is because of these things that the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience...Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. For it is a shame even to speak of the things that they do in secret; but when anything is exposed by the light it becomes visible, for anything that becomes visible is light." (Eph. 5:3-13)
Reply: Lust and adultery In Matt 5 and 19. http://www.libchrist.com/bible/lust.html
Reply: This talks about Galatians 5. What the Bible tells us about lust. http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/LustGal5.html
"If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth. For you have died, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these the wrath of God is coming." (Col. 3:1-6)
Reply: "Deny the flesh" related to Galatians 5 Fruits of the sin nature as listed. Not masturbation or meeting our other basic needs. 1 Cor. 7:5 5 Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. Starvation of sin is good, but Starvation of sexual release by way of masturbation or sexual intercourse with your spouse, may cause great harm and may give Satan a foot hold into our life and cause us to be tempted to do sexual sins.
Reply: Ecc also there is a time for everything.
Masturbation is certainly not the crucial issue of anyone's Christian walk, though self-consciousness probably makes it seem so to some. God's loyal-love (hesed) is patiently committed to seeing to it that we become whole and fulfilled no matter how much extra grace we may think we need. C.S. Lewis once wrote in one his letters,
Part of: http://www.proaxis.com/~solo/hustl.htm
Sin & Death in Mormon Country: A Latter-day Tragedy
By Mark A. Taylor*
On March 2, 1982, Kip Eliason, age 16, distraught and filled with self-hate over his inability to stop masturbating, committed suicide. Before asphyxiating himself, Kip left his father a note:
"Dear Dad,
"I love you more than what words can say. If it were possible, I would stay alive for only you, for I really only have you. But it isn't possible. I must first love myself, and I do not. The strange feeling of darkness and self-hate overpowers all my defenses. I must unfortunately yield to it. This turbulent feeling is only for a few to truly understand. I feel that you do not comprehend the immense feeling of serf-hatred I have. This is the only way I feel that I can relieve myself of these feelings now. Carry on with your life and be happy. I love you more than words can say.
"--Your son, Kip
Kip Eliason's five-year struggle to overcome masturbation started at age 11 when his grandmother persuaded him to join the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
"I know about the despair of overcoming chronic temptation. It is not serious, provided self-offended petulance, annoyance at breaking records, impatience, etc. don't get the upper hand. No amount of falls will really undo us if we keep on picking ourselves up each time. We shall be very muddy and tattered children by the time we reach home. But the bathrooms are all ready, the towels put out, and clean clothes in the airing cupboard. The only fatal thing is to lose one's temper and give it up. It is when we notice the dirt that God is most present in us; it is the very sign of his presence."
Notes
* In earlier generations some felt that Onan's sin, for which God ended his life, was masturbation (see Genesis 38). Onan disobeyed God's Word and failed to honor
his obligation to his family as is clear from the context. Most all Bible scholars today do not fault his coitus interruptus as the root of his sin.
1. A thorough discussion of masturbation and other topics of sexual morality is found in the book Sexual Chaos by John Vertefeuille, published by Crossway Books
in 1988. The author is college pastor of Faith Chapel in La Mesa, California.
2. Dr. John White's new book Eros Redeemed (Intervarsity Press, 1993)---is must reading.
John White writes as follows (pp124-125),
"In Eros Defiled I wrote about masturbation with compassion. I still have compassion for the victims of masturbation, but the time has now come for
me to challenge the views that prevail and to call on Christians to face reality. Masturbation is sin. It is not grave sin, not nearly as serious as pride, or
cruelty, or even unkindness. But still it is sin.
Reply: The O.T. prophects, Jesus, the Disciples, and anyone else in the Bible did not call masturbation a sin, but he figures he knows more then any of them.
Let me state my reasons for calling it sin at all. It is sin because sexuality was not given us for that purpose. In masturbating we use our bodily parts for a purpose God never intended for them. To say that the release of sexual tension justifies it is what my grandmother would have called "all my eye and Peggy Martin"---or what logicians might call specious reasoning.
N/A
My first argument, then, for calling masturbation sin is what could be called the argument of design.
Reply: God designed my hands to hang directly in front of my penis, also the average man gets 5 erection every night, and some during the day. This is God's design. Many discover masturbation total on their own in private and in innocents before they know anything about sexuality.
My body is mine only in the sense that I am responsible for its proper use. I am its steward. For what was my body designed? The Westminster Confession asks a similar if not identical question.
"What is the chief end of man?" The answer the authors give is, "Man's chief end is to glorify God and to enjoy him forever."
Reply: So does that mean that you ignore meeting your basic needs?
Paul expresses the same end for our bodies. He concludes, "So glorify God in your body" (1 Cor 6:20 RSV). The argument I have been using from chapter three onward concerns the offering of our bodies to God as an act of worship. In the NIV version of Romans 6, Paul even mentions the parts of our bodies, saying, "Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness . . . offer the parts of your body to him [God] as instruments of righteousness. For sin shall not be your master" (Rom 6:13- 14)
Reply: The O.T. prophects, Jesus, the Disciples, and anyone else in the Bible did not call masturbation a sin, but he figures he know more then any of them.
My body was not designed to masturbate. My body was designed to be used exclusively to glorify God. To use it in any other way is to rob God of something that is his by right, for there are no morally neutral actions.
Reply: So does that mean that you ignore meeting your basic needs? Eating food? Going to the toilet? Taking a bath?
You say: So everything becomes black and white. Are there no shades of gray? Yes, plenty of them. But even the whitest shade of gray has some black in it. So if you should go on to say, "Well, it really doesn't matter that much, does it?" then I must insist that sin always matters. Our sin brought about the death of Christ.
Just as speech was given to us in order that we might communicate truths rather than lies or
Reply: History of masturbation is almost 100% lies.
gossip, so the sexual parts of our bodies were designed to copulate. Remember, copulation is far more than orgasmic experiences. It was to be a sharing, a sort of gateway to deeper sharing, a never-ending mutual revelation of the depths of our souls. Yet copulation can be entirely selfish, a mere using of somebody's body to gratify myself, which is little different from masturbation.
Reply: N/A Man made conclusion only.
My second argument for calling masturbation sin---closely related to the first argument---is that masturbation is a form of idolatry. Our bodies are to be offered to God. Masturbation is to make a god of my bodily sensations, of relief from the tension that I feel.
Reply: No more idolatry then meeting any other basic need of man or getting a back massage.
Again, I know that married lovemaking can itself be a selfish pursuit of bodily sensation. But I repeat: it was not designed to be. At that point it becomes lust.
Reply: He who loves his wife loves himself. Eph. 5 Also 1 Cor 7:4,5
Yet I know how some men and women struggle. How bitter some people feel in their vain struggle against it!
Reply: Fighting against God's design is a great struggle. 1Cor 10:13 no temptation taken you ... gives a way of escape. But masturbation is the way of escape to avoid sexual sins. Also a great way to remove stress and 50 other benefits.
Younger people, young married away from their spouses, have a particularly difficult time.
I know a man whose problem began with marriage. Like all sin, masturbation must be dealt with compassionately and in love. I may be in my sixties,
Reply: It easy to point a finger at others at age 60. He condemned himself because of false man made sin, so he wants to pass it on to you so he can condemn you and torment you with past medical lies and misunderstands and misuse of Bible verses.
but I remember very clearly what it used to be like. Those were dark days when I hated myself. (I do not excuse my past actions, even though, looking back, I can explain them. Nor did my release from the habit occur gradually, dying out as the need for it diminished. It came by the Spirit's revelation.) Let us be compassionate with those who struggle."
Some Basics about Christianity and masturbation
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~austbua/basics.htm
Theological Arguments Against Masturbation http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/Arguments.html
Compares some of the characteristics of sin and Masturbation. http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/compare.html
This is a collection of emails in respond to the MORMONISM web site that tells how to overcome masturbation. And I thought Mormonism was a wacko religion before I read this! I have never confronted such unadulterated idiocy in my life." http://nowscape.com/mormon/thank-mast.htm
Quitting masturbation was written by the Church of LDS. The words typed in blue italics is A. Patcher opinions and are additions to the original text. http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/StopMaComment.html
Christians are very concerned about not lusting http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/Lust1.html
Peter's vision in Acts 10 "Don't call unclean what God calls clean." http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/Act11Unclean.html
Page 1: What some non-condemning Christian men think about Masturbation. http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/Men1.html
http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/Men1.html
Reply to some anti-masturbation forums responds is at this site http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/reply.html
Reply to some anti-masturbation web sites. http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/mbiblecom.html
The whole principle of Christianity is that God sees us perfect because of what Jesus did for us, provided we accept Jesus' sacrifice as our only means of getting to heaven. (He is our Savior)
This means that it is not WHAT we do that makes us right with God, but rather our acceptance of Jesus that makes us right with God.
That means it is not how we feel about ourselves that makes us right with God, rather it is trusting in His word that we are right with God because of our acceptance of Jesus.
This means that masturbating does not affect our standing with God, rather it has nothing to do with it because we are right with God because of Jesus.
Do you feel like you are sinning?
If we confess our sins to God He will forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
He ignores all our short comings and failures (whether real or imagined) and forgives ALL the sins that we confess to Him!
If you feel like your masturbation is a sin, then tell God that you are sorry and keep your heart right with Him. Don't try making promises that you will never do it again because it is almost impossible to keep them. (almost like promising you will never go to the toilet again!) If you keep making promises you will only feel condemned and bad about yourself. It is difficult for quite a lot of teenagers to accept their sexual nature and to become comfortable with this new side of their being.
God sees us as pure and clean when we come to Him like this. The Bible says that it is like we are wearing fine white robes as far as God is concerned.
To believe that God sees us that way requires a conscious decision just the same as it needs a conscious decision for us if we were to physically put on some white robes.
Imagine you had a girlfriend that you really loved. This girlfriend kept doing something that she felt really bad about (we'll say smoking for example). Because of this she kept hiding from you, convinced that you were angry with her because of this habit she couldn't kick. All the while you were wanting to be close to her because of the love you had for her - the habit was of no consequence as far as you were concerned. She couldn't be convinced and your relationship became strained.
That is how it is with God. He just wants to love you and have you love Him! This is His highest priority! He is not looking down from heaven waiting for you to masturbate again! It is apparently of very little (if any) real interest to Him! All He sees is the cleansed you - because of Jesus' sacrifice of dying on the cross and spilling His blood for us all.
Dare to see yourself as God sees you!
It won't only help you in the area of masturbation - it is a principle that applies to every area of your Christian walk.
What is the truth? How you are feeling about yourself or what God says about you?
If a Christian is feeling bad about himself in any area of his life, then he needs to see himself from God's viewpoint - perfect because of Jesus Christ!
Some more experiences about trying to stop
I tried when I first met the girl who is now my wife. I felt guilty about it my whole life anyway and thought since I was with the girl I really "loved," I should be able to stop. I went about 2 weeks or so until I just about exploded. Finally I gave in, and I shot about 3 or 4 feet on the first squirt. Later that evening, I talked to the youth minister at our church about it because I felt so guilty for giving in again. He explained how normal it was, and that to varying degrees, almost everyone, including girls, had masturbated at some time in their life. Since that time (I was about 17) I have come to the point where I don't have any guilt about it. As a matter of fact, I know it has enhanced my ability as a lover with my wife.
- age 35, Kansas
Yes. When I was 18 I went to a Christian camp for 10 weeks. The counselors requested that we not masturbate while at the camp. I held it for a whole 10 weeks! There was a ton of guilt associated with masturbating, and once I got back from the camp, I tried so hard to stop. I just couldn't, so I started looking into masturbation a bit more. I found out that it is a natural thing and that most guys do it. In the eyes of my religious beliefs, there was no place for masturbation — so I had to make the decision to not follow the religious beliefs until I could find some that meshed with my human desire to masturbate. After several years of trying to stop, I can just say it's incredibly difficult. It helps to try quitting with several other people whom you feel comfortable sharing with and who can hold you accountable if you slip up. But my advice is don't quit. It's really okay!
- age 22, Washington
Rebuttal to: http://www.xicom.com/bethany_bible/various/lambhtml/mast.htm
http://inkaboutit4u.com/?p=Debate_5_on_Masturbation_Forum_Inkaboutit_Reply
(compare to http://www.ldolphin.org/Mast.shtml) Red print is my (inkaboutit) replies to the above web site.
Masturbation And The Bible
Medical textbooks prior to the 18th Century seldom mentioned masturbation at all. In 1758 a Swiss physician named Tissot published a treatise claiming that masturbation* was the principle cause of mental illness---a terrible sin to be avoided like the plague. In spite of many rebuttals and critiques by contemporaries, Tissot's views became a standard reference found in most all medical textbooks published until the early part of our century.
Work In Process--I am putting all my inkaboutit.homestead web pages onto http://inkaboutit4u.com
My New Web Site is: http://inkaboutit4u.com
Reply: All lies. These, partly, are the lies that caused some to conclusion that masturbation was a sin or was bad for you.
http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/index6.html Has a lots of web sites to answer any anti-masturbation persons concerns. Christians leaders, Bible verses, history, medical facts, personal stories, and many other facts to answer all your questions.
Is Masturbation a sin? Or is masturbation a gift of God? Read my debate with Rev Dr Sir Randy Kemp on the forum. (I’m Tom or inkaboutit) http://www.voy.com/51042/3016.html http://www.voy.com/51042/3026.html
A Reply to an anti-masturbation web site.-- Is masturbation a sin? http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/masturbationreplywebsite3.html
Letter To Anti-masturbation teachers. I can clearly show you that with your anti-masturbation teaching that you are harming and hurting God, others, and yourself. http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/masturbationlettertoanti.html
The Cause for a great deal of the sexual negativity in our culture. When did sex became bad? http://thinkaboutit.homestead.com/gnotic.html
Who, when, and How Sex Was Made A Sin?? http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/madesin.html
The false Gnostic ideal that sex was a sin or evil was forced into the Christian thinking and is kept there by taking the Bible verses out of context.
Secular medical authorities nowadays universally proclaim that masturbation is physiologically harmless and that it may even be a normal, natural form of release. Physiologically there seems to be no harm in masturbating, though most psychology text book writers admit that associated guilt and shame afflict millions, especially during adolescence. This guilt is usually blamed on strict and legalistic religious upbringing and Victorian prudishness about sex. Textbooks on human sexuality seem to all go to great length to explain away the guilt that results from illicit sex, and thus many of these secular writers end of writing polemics against the Bible and openly endorsing hedonistic living that is in reality pagan.
Because the Bible says nothing specific on the subject, Christian counseling books vary in their approach in dealing with masturbation. Few Christian youth pastors or psychologists are willing to endorse masturbation as normal and natural, however a minority are willing to suggest that self stimulation can provide a release from excessive tension when one is single. "Better masturbation than excessive obsession with sex," they say, "and better masturbating than risking a fall into more serious sexual immorality involving another person." The Bible does not suggest such a rationalization, however---in 1 Cor. 7:9 the Apostle Paul cites marriage as God's alternative to "burning with passion."
Reply: Also in Corinth they were married at puberty (not 10 years later)
There are 2 types of passion. Sexual intercourse is only required for the second burning passion. That is want of sexual intercourse for human touch and intimacy contact and become one flesh with another. The basic passion is for basic sexual tension release of build up sexual tension which can be taken care of by way of masturbation or sexual intercourse. Masturbation has been going on since Adam and Eve. This not something that just started to happen.
Since scripture does not specifically name masturbation as a sin, some claim masturbation is evidently not critically important as compared, say, to fornication. This argument is not conclusive since the word "fornication" (porneia) is a broad word in the New Testament, actually encompassing all forms of sexual immorality.
Reply: Masturbation is not a form of sexual immorality. Sexual immorality related to man relating sexual to others not to him or herself in "Solo Sex" or sexual stress tension release.
Youth pastors also know from counseling experience that masturbation is often a huge source of guilt and anxiety for many Christian young men. Therefore they feel the problem is best dealt with by reassurance of God's grace and forgiveness and by focusing on spiritual growth to the end that the individual moves on to spiritual and emotional maturity, leaving masturbation behind as a symptom of spiritual immaturity.
Reply: Masturbation is a basic need, not a symptom of spiritual immaturity. That like saying eating food, or going to the toilet, or meeting many other basic needs are symptoms of spiritual immaturity.
Counselors who work with adolescents also sympathetically recognize that masturbation can be a tenacious habit not easily overcome---a habit only made worse by prohibitions, stern warnings or a critical, judgmental attitude. Vows to quit masturbating seem always to fail and cold showers are sometimes to no avail.
Reply: Same result of failure, if you tried to stop any other basic need. Just that this basic need is not the same for all people.
Masturbation can become obsessive to some, producing endless guilt and self- consciousness in young sufferers who find they can not overcome the habit by their own self-effort. Some young people may even feel they are committing the unpardonable sin.
Reply: This shame and guilt is man made and man taught. A Learned behavior. Small children don't have it until they are taught.
Masturbation often goes unresolved for many years, perhaps as a "secret sin," until the desperate sufferer gets up the courage to share with a fellow-Christian or a pastor. Many married men admit to masturbating surprisingly often, even when they also claim to be enjoying a happy marriage and normal sex life with their partners.
Sharing the secrets of one's defeats in masturbation with a trusted Christian brother, mentor, or accountability group usually brings a real sense of relief and helps the person to be more objective about himself and his place in the world.
Reply: Survey show that the 97% masturbate including Godly Christians. Because of the lack of true information and ignorance some people think they are the only one that masturbated. Then when they find out that 97% masturbate then this is great relief to them.
All of us are sinners and we are only sinners who have been justified by God and made---by
grace---worthy members of the kingdom of God. False guilt and self-condemnation (especially in "shame-based" individuals) surely is more serious source of defeat for some people than their true moral guilt before God who is gracious and full of mercy. "As a Father pities his children, so the Lord pities those who fear him. For he knows our frame; he remembers that we are dust." (Ps. 103:13, 14)
Reply: We have a sin nature but that does not mean that masturbation is a sin. The sin nature is talked about in Galatians 5 , fruits of the sin nature, which does not include masturbation. Most sins are related to how we relate to others and God.
Although the Old Testament records the sexual failures of a number of men and women there are non- sexual sins that are more serious in the eyes of God, though they usually get less attention than sexual failures (see for example Proverbs 6:16-19). For instance, Jesus was merciful and compassionate towards a woman caught in the act of adultery, but he was scathing in his devastating rebukes of the arrogant self-righteousness of the Pharisees.
Most Christian writers on Biblical mores and ethics point to the words of Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount (Matt. 5:27-20) where the Lord teaches that it is possible for a person to commit sexually immoral acts in one's fantasy life. The thoughts and intentions of the heart can be very important and as implicating as outward acts.
Although deliberately feeding on lustful thoughts and acting them out in one's mind is "already adultery" in the heart, according to Jesus, temptation which is not acted upon is not constitute sin. As an old Proverb says, "One can not prevent the birds from flying over one's head, but one can keep them from building a nest in one's hair." When the factor of fantasies is added into the equation of masturbation there is no doubt we are now referring to fornication and sexual uncleanness. One can no longer claim that masturbation is a "gray area."
JTCL said:4) Masturbation almost always leads to fantasies. Sow a fantasy.. reap an act.
My reply: All these web site listed below, talk about fantasies. Also remember you have many fantasies that you don't think are sinful. Just because you have faulty programming of the past does not mean what you think is always 100% correct. Sexual fantasies are 100% normal for any red hot blooded males including very Godly Christians. It is built in to our nature. If you condemn normal healthy sexual fantasies, then you have to condemn every person in the world everyday, almost every few hours, of their life, both Christian
and non-Christian. Including yourself.
Matt. 5:28 is totally misunderstood and taken out of context. "look at a women with lust...adultery" http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/Lustmt528.html
Is masturbation a sin, or a Gift of God? http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/highlight2.html
Instead of trying to stop people from mastur-bating, the church should be encouraging them to do so. Christian minister David McKay*Part of: http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/ProMinister.html
Solo Sex and the Bible. Wonderful benefits and a Gift from God.(masturbation) (Many links) http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/solo.html
Advantages of MASTURBATION By Ph.D Albert Ellis (50 Advantages) 5 pages of Sexual Advantages, Emotional Advantages, Healthful Advantages, Relational Advantages, and others. http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/mmadvantages50.html
Modern Sex Research Says This About MASTURBATION 23 Benefits By Manfred F. Martino a College Professor. http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/mmadvantages23.html
Why is MASTURBATION so Popular. Page 14 - 15 reasons. http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/mapopular.html
http://inkaboutit4u.com/?p=Masturbation_Why_Is_It_So_Popular
The Healing Power of Sex. Celibacy can be hazardous to your health. http://www.libchrist.com/sexed/healing.html
Masturbation is required http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/mmrequired.html
Solo Ejaculations Maintain Healthy Prostate For Men http://www.proaxis.com/~solo/prost.htm
MASTURBATION has a lot Going for it http://www.proaxis.com/~solo/120798d.htm
Compares some of the characteristics of sin and of masturbation. Is MASTURBATION a sin? Or a gift from God. Compare and find your own conclusion. http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/macompare.html
Is Masturbation Healthy? http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/maryhealthy.html
Ask The Healthy Devil SUBJECT: Masturbation Posted: November 22, 1996 QUESTION: I have been masturbating for at least once a week for the past few years. May I know whether this good for my health or would it affect my future ... http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/mahealthdevil.html
In actual fact, masturbation is virtually always closely connected with lustful thought life. Pornography is everywhere in today's society, suggestive TV programs and films laced liberally with sexual promiscuity and implicit sex can only be avoided with difficulty. Advertisements and a spirit of sensuality barrage the mind constantly in today's sexually permissive society severely aggravating the problem of gaining and maintaining purity and personal holiness as a Christian. Many individuals who masturbate will admit that they use pornography, photographs or sexually suggestive stories to heighten the pleasure and vicarious enjoyment of sex.
Reply: Masturbation is not adultery or fornication. It is normal and natural to have a healthy sex drive and sexual desires and to be attracted to the opposite sex for sexual reasons. God built it into the design.
All of these are, in reality, forms of idolatry involving the worship of another person, or the worship of sex itself, rather than God. An individual whose life is centered around
fantasies is not likely to do well when attempting to relate with a real flesh-and-blood marriage partner and the demands of adult life.
Reply: Having sexual need for sexual stress tension release is a basic need not idolatry. Or enjoying sexuality is not idolatry. Just because you see beauty in something does not mean that you are worshipping it as if it was a God.
"Jesus was condemning...those fantasies in which we see ourselves possessing that which we are not allowed to have. He is condemning those fantasies in which we manipulative people in our minds in ways that will appeal to and satisfy the lust of our imagination. Whether it be a forbidden partner or a forbidden sexual practice, we must be aware of the fact that the mind is capable of endless perversions" (Ref. 1, page 119).
Reply: It is normal and natural to have a healthy sex drive and sexual desires and to be attracted to the opposite sex for sexual reasons. God built it into the design. Fantasies are a normal and natural part of a healthy sex drive. We have "made believe" in all parts of our life which we accept as normal, healthy and fun. We encourage this in children's play. We made "made believe" goals and dream for the future. But only when it come to sexuality do we declare it to be wrong. God built it into our design.
In those cases where masturbating is used occasionally to relieve what seem to be unbearable sexual pressures, then eliminating fantasies is certainly one step in the right direction. Many Christian young people can not imagine Jesus Christ loving them deeply enough to help them overcome the shame of their masturbation. Thus masturbation is not an area of one's life where Jesus is welcome---it is usually private and secret. Excluding Jesus from any area of our lives is of course risky since we are then left in darkness and in bondage to sin in one form or another. This is because "Anything not based on faith is sin."
Reply: This is man made shame and guilt based on a lot of lies and lack of understanding.
To be more objective, the Bible is clear that sexual activity is always wrong outside of marriage.
Reply: Not masturbation.
Yet today's society promotes, encourages, and teaches young people to explore their sexuality and to become active in early adolescence. Biblical values have been overwhelmed and cast aside in most all schools today with the result that a whole generation has becoming openly pagan and promiscuous. This tragic, terrible state of affairs is associated with a breakdown in family ties and widespread divorce. It is therefore very difficult for Christian men and women who are not yet married to stay clear of sexual experimentation, pornography, and peer
pressure to get involved.
Reply: This has nothing to do with masturbation. Masturbation actually helps the Godly Christian to prevent sexual sins and temptations.
Claims that all forms of sexual expression are normal, healthy, natural, and desirable may be fraudulent and false, but they are widely accepted today. In this environment modesty, chastity, purity and celibacy are virtually never discussed---yet they are paramount values in a Biblical view of godliness and spirituality.
Reply: "All forms" I thought this paper was concerned with masturbation and the Bible only. He is getting off the subject.
The fact that masturbation is "encouraged" as normal and healthy by a majority of educators and secular leaders today definitely does not mean that the majority viewpoint is the correct one---the opposite is more likely to be true.
Reply: Where are the facts?
In overcoming the excessively inhibited sexual mores of an early generation, the sexual revolution has obviously gone completely over board in the direction of total moral looseness, unrestrained hedonism and unbelievable promiscuity. Billy Graham's wife, Ruth Bell Graham, has well said, "If God doesn't judge America for her immorality, he will have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah."
Reply: Nothing at all about masturbation. He is getting off the subject again.
The fall of man in the Garden of Eden was a fall into self-centeredness.
Reply: Who said? They were told "not to" they did.
Our fallen natures are today often infected with lust and covetousness and envy. Our minds are easily programmed by TV, movies, and even school textbooks---all of which now bombard us with sensual images and antichristian values from the cradle to the grave.
Reply: Masturbation has been around since Adam and Eve.
It is plain to see that masturbation is usually narcissistic. Narcissus was the Greek youth who, upon seeing his reflection in a pool, fell in love with himself, then fell into the pool and drowned. In other generations masturbation was called self-abuse, solo-sex, self-love, or self-gratification. The emphasis is on "self," not on one's relationship with God or one's family.
Reply: Masturbation mostly meets a basic need, just like eating food and going to the bathroom, etc.
We can surely say the "solo-sex" is not part of God's original design for man which is for sexual expression in the context of love and commitment in a marriage.
Reply: This is false and man made statement.
The following is more man made statements and faulty conclusions.
Reply: For comment about the following check web page: Theological Arguments Against Masturbation http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/Arguments.html
Masturbation can never be fulfilling and satisfying since it is inherently an incomplete act to which there is no response or appropriate answer-back from a complementary partner. Masturbation also tends to turn one's focus inward upon oneself, leading to shame, sometimes excessive introversion, often low self-esteem, self- consciousness and detachment from normal social roles.
Reply: False. He made this up on the fly. Where is the research? Research show much different.
God did not design sex to be a solitary experience. It is supposed to be shared with another, and only in marriage. Sexuality is intended to be part of the complementary interaction of self-giving love between a man and a woman who are committed to one another for life. (See 1 Cor. 7:4 where the Bible states that husband and wife are to give up the right to their own bodies to one another in marriage). Within marriage the dynamic interplay between opposites can bring healing and wholeness for both the man and his wife. Sexual expression in any other context is destructive to wholeness. The Bible certainly shows that God is not against pleasure, He wants us to say "no" to things that hurt us.
http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/MarriageBed.html Talks about 1 Cor. 7:4
Reply: That's when Lori and (Paul) REALLY started to pray and study about it; when it's your kids, saying "I'm not sure, so don't do it" just don't cut it! After a lot of study of both the Bible and the biology, and a lot of prayer, we came to the mutual conclusion that masturbation was not wrong for singles; in fact we came to the realization it was a good thing because it could help them stay away from fornication.
...Lori found some excerpts from Patsy Rae Dawson's book "Why God's People Make the Best Lovers". (I'll post a link to it later.) She has a different take on the authority over spouses body found in 1 Cor 7:4. She explains that the scripture uses a Greek word combination known as an ellipsis, a comparison of two things which are both true, but one has the priority. In other words, we have power over our own sexuality, but our spouse has GREATER power. With regards to masturbation this suggest that husbands and wives can masturbate as long as doing so does not cheat their spouse sexually. I'll admit that this idea was uncomfortable for me, and still is to some extent, but having studied it, I can find no fault with her reasoning.
So, I am forced to conclude that it's not a sin for a married person to masturbate. I must also conclude that it's not necessarily a sign of a problem in the marriage.
Because sexual activity results in pleasure, sexual habits such as masturbation are become conditioned responses that are reinforced with repetition. In a society where instant gratification is the goal of many, few of our contemporaries think in terms of self-control or long term fulfillment. Unlike hunger or other purely physical desires, human sexual response encompasses body, soul, and spirit. Without food and water man can not live, but living without sexual expression does no harm and can often be of great benefit because it allows libidinal energy to be refocused into socially redeeming activities.
Reply: Research shows the lack of masturbation does harm you. Cancer, death, suicide, blockage, built up stress, and a lot more problems (Many healthy benefit for those that have guilt free masturbation no negative consequence accept man made guilt and shame.)
Abstinence and celibacy have always been prized by the church as healthy and desirable before marriage, and normative for singles. In the personal experience of countless pastors and counselors in the church of Jesus Christ, men and women are always far better off if they remained sexually inactive until marriage,
Reply: Not talking about masturbation. 95% masturbate, so are these the 5% he is talking about.
and faithful to one's spouse thereafter. Countless married couples regret their premarital affairs and sexual expression prior to marriage because the effects show up later on in making marriage less than it ought to be.
Reply: Nothing at all about masturbation. He is getting off the subject again.
Sexual selfishness is more difficult to cure than a tendency to eat to much apple pie or roast beef and potatoes. Even if one were to decide that masturbation is not a specific sin named in the Bible that does not mean it is a neutral issue. In real life not all choices are between right and wrong, but often between degrees of good and better. We can surely say that overcoming masturbation is the better course to seek after.
Reply: False. Look at the facts. He made this up on the fly. Where is the research? Research show much different.
Unfortunately, once sexual desires are aroused it become difficult to reverse course and return to a celibate, virgin status. Regaining purity is, however, a requirement for Christian growth. In the Song of Solomon, the Shulamite maiden encourages the Daughters of Jerusalem to "stir not nor awaken love until it please," (i.e., until the proper time and place).
Reply: Nothing at all about masturbation. He is getting off the subject again.
Admittedly, sexual desires are most intense biologically speaking when we are young and not yet able to marry. The spiritual victory to be gained (with the help of the Lord Jesus) is one of self-control (1 Thess. 4:1-8)
Reply: Masturbation is no more the lack of self control as is urinating in a toilet or eating food. "Wet Dreams" are more of a lack of self control, similar to wetting your pants. I know no one that would say that if you had a wet dream or to wetting your pants, that you were sinning.
and an inner purity that constantly vitalizes one's intimate personal relationship with Jesus the Bridegroom of the church. The Song of Solomon gives us a good picture not only of marriage but also of our individual relationship with Jesus Christ seen as a discipleship of love (Ref 2). God is working in us to produce wholeness and well-roundedness, a self-giving life style not a self-centered one.
Reply: Meeting basic needs is not considered to be self-centered, but taking care of ourselves. Only if it was done at the expense or loss to another person. Like stealing bread from someone else to meet our need of hunger. Or, masturbating self, at the neglect of meeting your sponse's sexual needs in mutual sexual enjoyment.
Previous generations of Christian leaders taught that instinctual energies could be sublimated and rechanneled into productive and creative actions in the world.
Reply: Who? All I see is more like torture treatment instead.
This concept has largely disappeared in our time when the focus is on self, self-realization, and self-fulfillment.
Reply: Or maybe it is now against the law to torture people.
Taking all these things together it is difficult to build a case for masturbation as something which is innocuous, though it may be less serious a struggle for some as compared to others.
Reply: We have different sex drives.
Christian life is neither easy nor free from temptation and even stumbling, falling, failing and starting over. The aim of our lives should be to please God, and to do that we must deny the flesh, put to death our selfish desires, starve the appetites of our inner sensualities and lusts, and feed upon the Word of God. We need to develop close friends we can share secrets with and who will keep us accountable in our spiritual walk.
Reply: "Deny the flesh" related to Galatians 5 Fruits of the “sin principal”part of us as listed. Not masturbation or meeting our other basic needs. 1 Cor. 7:5 5 Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. Starvation of sin is good, but Starvation of sexual release by way of masturbation or sexual intercourse with your spouse, may cause great harm and may give Satan a foot hold into our life and cause us to be tempted to do sexual sins.
Remember they were married at puberty.
NIV Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
RSV Do not refuse one another except perhaps by agreement for a season, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, lest Satan tempt you through lack of self-control.
KJV Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
DBY Defraud not one another, unless, it may be, by consent for a time, that ye may devote yourselves to prayer, and again be together, that Satan tempt you not because of your incontinency.
YLT Defraud not one another, except by consent for a time, that ye may be free for fasting and prayer, and again may come together, that the Adversary may not tempt you because of your incontinence;
A number of passages in the New Testament are applicable to growing out of and overcoming masturbation as we seek single sightedness, with purity of heart and motive in following Jesus the Lord.
Reply: Quitting masturbation was written by the Church of LDS. The words typed in blue italics is A. Patcher opinions and are additions to the original text. http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/StopMaComment.html
"Do not yield your members to sin as instruments of wickedness, but yield yourselves to God as men who have been brought from death to life, and
your members to God as instruments of righteousness." (Rom. 6:13)
Reply: N/A. Masturbation is not a sin. But meets a basic need for sexual stress tension release. No more sinful then a back massage or eating food..
"...make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather be healed. Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord." (Heb.12:13,14)
N/A Sexuality is designed by a Holy and pure God. Sex is not "dirty" or "impure" or "unclean".
"But fornication and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is fitting among saints...Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for it is because of these things that the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience...Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. For it is a shame even to speak of the things that they do in secret; but when anything is exposed by the light it becomes visible, for anything that becomes visible is light." (Eph. 5:3-13)
Reply: Lust and adultery In Matt 5 and 19. http://www.libchrist.com/bible/lust.html
Reply: This talks about Galatians 5. What the Bible tells us about lust. http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/LustGal5.html
"If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth. For you have died, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these the wrath of God is coming." (Col. 3:1-6)
Reply: "Deny the flesh" related to Galatians 5 Fruits of the sin nature as listed. Not masturbation or meeting our other basic needs. 1 Cor. 7:5 5 Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. Starvation of sin is good, but Starvation of sexual release by way of masturbation or sexual intercourse with your spouse, may cause great harm and may give Satan a foot hold into our life and cause us to be tempted to do sexual sins.
Reply: Ecc also there is a time for everything.
Masturbation is certainly not the crucial issue of anyone's Christian walk, though self-consciousness probably makes it seem so to some. God's loyal-love (hesed) is patiently committed to seeing to it that we become whole and fulfilled no matter how much extra grace we may think we need. C.S. Lewis once wrote in one his letters,
Part of: http://www.proaxis.com/~solo/hustl.htm
Sin & Death in Mormon Country: A Latter-day Tragedy
By Mark A. Taylor*
On March 2, 1982, Kip Eliason, age 16, distraught and filled with self-hate over his inability to stop masturbating, committed suicide. Before asphyxiating himself, Kip left his father a note:
"Dear Dad,
"I love you more than what words can say. If it were possible, I would stay alive for only you, for I really only have you. But it isn't possible. I must first love myself, and I do not. The strange feeling of darkness and self-hate overpowers all my defenses. I must unfortunately yield to it. This turbulent feeling is only for a few to truly understand. I feel that you do not comprehend the immense feeling of serf-hatred I have. This is the only way I feel that I can relieve myself of these feelings now. Carry on with your life and be happy. I love you more than words can say.
"--Your son, Kip
Kip Eliason's five-year struggle to overcome masturbation started at age 11 when his grandmother persuaded him to join the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
"I know about the despair of overcoming chronic temptation. It is not serious, provided self-offended petulance, annoyance at breaking records, impatience, etc. don't get the upper hand. No amount of falls will really undo us if we keep on picking ourselves up each time. We shall be very muddy and tattered children by the time we reach home. But the bathrooms are all ready, the towels put out, and clean clothes in the airing cupboard. The only fatal thing is to lose one's temper and give it up. It is when we notice the dirt that God is most present in us; it is the very sign of his presence."
Notes
* In earlier generations some felt that Onan's sin, for which God ended his life, was masturbation (see Genesis 38). Onan disobeyed God's Word and failed to honor
his obligation to his family as is clear from the context. Most all Bible scholars today do not fault his coitus interruptus as the root of his sin.
1. A thorough discussion of masturbation and other topics of sexual morality is found in the book Sexual Chaos by John Vertefeuille, published by Crossway Books
in 1988. The author is college pastor of Faith Chapel in La Mesa, California.
2. Dr. John White's new book Eros Redeemed (Intervarsity Press, 1993)---is must reading.
John White writes as follows (pp124-125),
"In Eros Defiled I wrote about masturbation with compassion. I still have compassion for the victims of masturbation, but the time has now come for
me to challenge the views that prevail and to call on Christians to face reality. Masturbation is sin. It is not grave sin, not nearly as serious as pride, or
cruelty, or even unkindness. But still it is sin.
Reply: The O.T. prophects, Jesus, the Disciples, and anyone else in the Bible did not call masturbation a sin, but he figures he knows more then any of them.
Let me state my reasons for calling it sin at all. It is sin because sexuality was not given us for that purpose. In masturbating we use our bodily parts for a purpose God never intended for them. To say that the release of sexual tension justifies it is what my grandmother would have called "all my eye and Peggy Martin"---or what logicians might call specious reasoning.
N/A
My first argument, then, for calling masturbation sin is what could be called the argument of design.
Reply: God designed my hands to hang directly in front of my penis, also the average man gets 5 erection every night, and some during the day. This is God's design. Many discover masturbation total on their own in private and in innocents before they know anything about sexuality.
My body is mine only in the sense that I am responsible for its proper use. I am its steward. For what was my body designed? The Westminster Confession asks a similar if not identical question.
"What is the chief end of man?" The answer the authors give is, "Man's chief end is to glorify God and to enjoy him forever."
Reply: So does that mean that you ignore meeting your basic needs?
Paul expresses the same end for our bodies. He concludes, "So glorify God in your body" (1 Cor 6:20 RSV). The argument I have been using from chapter three onward concerns the offering of our bodies to God as an act of worship. In the NIV version of Romans 6, Paul even mentions the parts of our bodies, saying, "Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness . . . offer the parts of your body to him [God] as instruments of righteousness. For sin shall not be your master" (Rom 6:13- 14)
Reply: The O.T. prophects, Jesus, the Disciples, and anyone else in the Bible did not call masturbation a sin, but he figures he know more then any of them.
My body was not designed to masturbate. My body was designed to be used exclusively to glorify God. To use it in any other way is to rob God of something that is his by right, for there are no morally neutral actions.
Reply: So does that mean that you ignore meeting your basic needs? Eating food? Going to the toilet? Taking a bath?
You say: So everything becomes black and white. Are there no shades of gray? Yes, plenty of them. But even the whitest shade of gray has some black in it. So if you should go on to say, "Well, it really doesn't matter that much, does it?" then I must insist that sin always matters. Our sin brought about the death of Christ.
Just as speech was given to us in order that we might communicate truths rather than lies or
Reply: History of masturbation is almost 100% lies.
gossip, so the sexual parts of our bodies were designed to copulate. Remember, copulation is far more than orgasmic experiences. It was to be a sharing, a sort of gateway to deeper sharing, a never-ending mutual revelation of the depths of our souls. Yet copulation can be entirely selfish, a mere using of somebody's body to gratify myself, which is little different from masturbation.
Reply: N/A Man made conclusion only.
My second argument for calling masturbation sin---closely related to the first argument---is that masturbation is a form of idolatry. Our bodies are to be offered to God. Masturbation is to make a god of my bodily sensations, of relief from the tension that I feel.
Reply: No more idolatry then meeting any other basic need of man or getting a back massage.
Again, I know that married lovemaking can itself be a selfish pursuit of bodily sensation. But I repeat: it was not designed to be. At that point it becomes lust.
Reply: He who loves his wife loves himself. Eph. 5 Also 1 Cor 7:4,5
Yet I know how some men and women struggle. How bitter some people feel in their vain struggle against it!
Reply: Fighting against God's design is a great struggle. 1Cor 10:13 no temptation taken you ... gives a way of escape. But masturbation is the way of escape to avoid sexual sins. Also a great way to remove stress and 50 other benefits.
Younger people, young married away from their spouses, have a particularly difficult time.
I know a man whose problem began with marriage. Like all sin, masturbation must be dealt with compassionately and in love. I may be in my sixties,
Reply: It easy to point a finger at others at age 60. He condemned himself because of false man made sin, so he wants to pass it on to you so he can condemn you and torment you with past medical lies and misunderstands and misuse of Bible verses.
but I remember very clearly what it used to be like. Those were dark days when I hated myself. (I do not excuse my past actions, even though, looking back, I can explain them. Nor did my release from the habit occur gradually, dying out as the need for it diminished. It came by the Spirit's revelation.) Let us be compassionate with those who struggle."
Some Basics about Christianity and masturbation
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~austbua/basics.htm
Theological Arguments Against Masturbation http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/Arguments.html
Compares some of the characteristics of sin and Masturbation. http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/compare.html
This is a collection of emails in respond to the MORMONISM web site that tells how to overcome masturbation. And I thought Mormonism was a wacko religion before I read this! I have never confronted such unadulterated idiocy in my life." http://nowscape.com/mormon/thank-mast.htm
Quitting masturbation was written by the Church of LDS. The words typed in blue italics is A. Patcher opinions and are additions to the original text. http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/StopMaComment.html
Christians are very concerned about not lusting http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/Lust1.html
Peter's vision in Acts 10 "Don't call unclean what God calls clean." http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/Act11Unclean.html
Page 1: What some non-condemning Christian men think about Masturbation. http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/Men1.html
http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/Men1.html
Reply to some anti-masturbation forums responds is at this site http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/reply.html
Reply to some anti-masturbation web sites. http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/mbiblecom.html
The whole principle of Christianity is that God sees us perfect because of what Jesus did for us, provided we accept Jesus' sacrifice as our only means of getting to heaven. (He is our Savior)
This means that it is not WHAT we do that makes us right with God, but rather our acceptance of Jesus that makes us right with God.
That means it is not how we feel about ourselves that makes us right with God, rather it is trusting in His word that we are right with God because of our acceptance of Jesus.
This means that masturbating does not affect our standing with God, rather it has nothing to do with it because we are right with God because of Jesus.
Do you feel like you are sinning?
If we confess our sins to God He will forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
He ignores all our short comings and failures (whether real or imagined) and forgives ALL the sins that we confess to Him!
If you feel like your masturbation is a sin, then tell God that you are sorry and keep your heart right with Him. Don't try making promises that you will never do it again because it is almost impossible to keep them. (almost like promising you will never go to the toilet again!) If you keep making promises you will only feel condemned and bad about yourself. It is difficult for quite a lot of teenagers to accept their sexual nature and to become comfortable with this new side of their being.
God sees us as pure and clean when we come to Him like this. The Bible says that it is like we are wearing fine white robes as far as God is concerned.
To believe that God sees us that way requires a conscious decision just the same as it needs a conscious decision for us if we were to physically put on some white robes.
Imagine you had a girlfriend that you really loved. This girlfriend kept doing something that she felt really bad about (we'll say smoking for example). Because of this she kept hiding from you, convinced that you were angry with her because of this habit she couldn't kick. All the while you were wanting to be close to her because of the love you had for her - the habit was of no consequence as far as you were concerned. She couldn't be convinced and your relationship became strained.
That is how it is with God. He just wants to love you and have you love Him! This is His highest priority! He is not looking down from heaven waiting for you to masturbate again! It is apparently of very little (if any) real interest to Him! All He sees is the cleansed you - because of Jesus' sacrifice of dying on the cross and spilling His blood for us all.
Dare to see yourself as God sees you!
It won't only help you in the area of masturbation - it is a principle that applies to every area of your Christian walk.
What is the truth? How you are feeling about yourself or what God says about you?
If a Christian is feeling bad about himself in any area of his life, then he needs to see himself from God's viewpoint - perfect because of Jesus Christ!
Some more experiences about trying to stop
I tried when I first met the girl who is now my wife. I felt guilty about it my whole life anyway and thought since I was with the girl I really "loved," I should be able to stop. I went about 2 weeks or so until I just about exploded. Finally I gave in, and I shot about 3 or 4 feet on the first squirt. Later that evening, I talked to the youth minister at our church about it because I felt so guilty for giving in again. He explained how normal it was, and that to varying degrees, almost everyone, including girls, had masturbated at some time in their life. Since that time (I was about 17) I have come to the point where I don't have any guilt about it. As a matter of fact, I know it has enhanced my ability as a lover with my wife.
- age 35, Kansas
Yes. When I was 18 I went to a Christian camp for 10 weeks. The counselors requested that we not masturbate while at the camp. I held it for a whole 10 weeks! There was a ton of guilt associated with masturbating, and once I got back from the camp, I tried so hard to stop. I just couldn't, so I started looking into masturbation a bit more. I found out that it is a natural thing and that most guys do it. In the eyes of my religious beliefs, there was no place for masturbation — so I had to make the decision to not follow the religious beliefs until I could find some that meshed with my human desire to masturbate. After several years of trying to stop, I can just say it's incredibly difficult. It helps to try quitting with several other people whom you feel comfortable sharing with and who can hold you accountable if you slip up. But my advice is don't quit. It's really okay!
- age 22, Washington