Debate 1 Online Forum on Masturbation Inkaboutit Reply
Is masturbation a sin? It is very clear that masturbation is very healthy and a gift of God. Just like sexuality is a gift of God. The same sexual: lust, fantasies, thoughts, are use in both. NOT any 40+ Bible writers or Jesus called masturbation a sin.
Author:
Inkaboutit
http://inkaboutit4u.com/?p=Debate_1_on_Masturbation_forum_Inkaboutit_Reply
Date Posted: 09:21:46 08/12/02 Mon
Masturbation Debate Online Forum Part 2
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>>>>>>>>“inkafool” “inkaidiot” “inkalost.”...
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
Reply:
Just more name-calling. People who have no answers have to resort to name-calling. This is the opposite of the law of love. This is an example of the fruits of the “sin principal”. Also a display of anger and pride. Lack of an open mind to learn truth.
The Jewish leader had the same problem. Jesus tried to show them truth and expose lies. The Jewish leaders pride took over and cause anger and name-calling and put Jesus on the cross. The Jewish leader thought they were obedience to God. They had the majority on their side. They thought they knew all the answers. Anyone who disagreed with them, then, they should be crucified. They had closed minds.
Mt 5:22 - But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
John 13:35 - Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples."
>>>>>>>“Wait a minute what law there is no right or wrong”
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
Reply: We are under the law of love.
Jas 2:12 - So whenever you speak, or whatever you do, remember that you will be judged by the law of love, the law that set you free.
Ro 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Ga 5:14 - For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Gal 5:14 - For the whole law can be summed up in this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
Ro 13:9 - For the commandments against adultery and murder and stealing and coveting – and any other commandment – are all summed up in this one commandment: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
Ga 5:13 - For you have been called to live in freedom – not freedom to satisfy your sinful nature, but freedom to serve one another in love.
Note: this is the "sin principal" part of us. Being unloving, unkind, unforgiving, unthankful, being mean, selfish, rude, etc opposite of 1 Cor 13. God designed the human nature and said it was very good. We added the "sin principal" part.
Ro 13:10 - Love does no wrong to anyone, so love satisfies all of God's requirements.
Ro 13:8 - Pay all your debts, except the debt of love for others. You can never finish paying that! If you love your neighbor, you will fulfill all the requirements of God's law.
Joh 13:35 - Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples."
1Co 16:14 - And everything you do must be done with love.
Ga 5:22 - But when the Holy Spirit controls our lives, he will produce this kind of fruit in us: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness
Jas 2:8 - If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you do well;
1 Corinthians 13: 1 - 13
1 If I could speak in any language in heaven or on earth F63 but didn't love others, I would only be making meaningless noise like a loud gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I had the gift of prophecy, and if I knew all the mysteries of the future and knew everything about everything, but didn't love others, what good would I be? And if I had the gift of faith so that I could speak to a mountain and make it move, without love I would be no good to anybody. 3 If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast about it; F64 but if I didn't love others, I would be of no value whatsoever.
4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5 or rude. Love does not demand its own way. Love is not irritable, and it keeps no record of when it has been wronged. 6 It is never glad about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. 7 Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.
8 Love will last forever, but prophecy and speaking in unknown languages and special knowledge will all disappear. 9 Now we know only a little, and even the gift of prophecy reveals little! 10 But when the end comes, these special gifts will all disappear. 11 It's like this: When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child does. But when I grew up, I put away childish things. 12 Now we see things imperfectly as in a poor mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God knows me now. 13 There are three things that will endure – faith, hope, and love – and the greatest of these is love.
>>>>>>>>>“Also DR. James Dobson doesn't condone masturbation.”
My New Web Site is: http://inkaboutit4u.com
Reply: Part of:
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
"I don't believe a loving God would put a raging fire in an immature kid and then damn him for doing what he can't help doing" Dr. James Dobson "Focus on the Family"(5)
Surveys have consistently shown that more than 95% of males engage in masturbation, particularly during adolescence. (Some say the remainders are lying!) Dr Dobson of "Focus on the Family" notes that there is absolutely no controversy on these figures from any source!
Dr James Dobson from "Focus on the Family" writes: "It is my opinion that masturbation is not much of an issue with God. It is a normal part of adolescence which involves no one else. It does not cause disease. It does not produce babies, and Jesus did not mention it in the Bible. I'm not telling you to masturbate, and I hope you won't feel the need for it. But if you do, it is my opinion that you should not struggle with guilt over it. Why do I tell you this? Because I deal with so many Christian young people who are torn apart with guilt over masturbation; they want to stop and just can't. I would like to help you avoid that agony." (5)
Dr James Dobson in his video "Peer Pressure and Sexuality" explains that over time, the hormonal pressure inside a boy can increase to the point where even a girl simply walking into the room can trigger off an irreversible chain of events in his mind. The desire for sexual expression becomes so strong that he invariably masturbates resulting in the hormonal pressure then dropping again.
Over time, the sexual pressure builds again and the boy will feel compelled to express the sexual pressure in his body again no matter how strong his determination was to 'never do it again'. (paraphrased from the video) The best advice seems to be that if a boy finds the need to masturbate, then to accept it as a normal part of his being.
Dr. James Dobson says that boys from Christian / church backgrounds often have additional problems with masturbation. Since boys from these backgrounds are taught that there is an after-life and they will be held accountable for their life here on earth, many become plagued with unrelenting guilt over masturbation.
He goes on to say that many boys (including Christians) find masturbation absolutely uncontrollable. The boy feels he has sinned and asks God to forgive him and promises not to do it again. Sooner or later though, the accumulating hormonal pressure becomes all encompassing and he will find he is unable to keep his promise to God.
What does a boy say to God on the 300th time he has failed to live up to his promise to stop? This boy is in incredible pain. He feels bad about himself and "those" thoughts and guilt that don't stop even when he is church! The pain becomes so great that we lose the young man to the church and to God because he simply has to escape from it.
Dr Dobson summarizes with the statement: "Masturbation is all encompassing!" Boys and parents need to understand that masturbation (in Dr. Dobson's words) "is a inevitable developmental stage - it is going to happen!" He concludes with the statement: "If it happens to you, I wouldn't worry too much about it because I don't think it has much to do with your relationship to God"
>>>>>>>“set on the things of the flesh so you are at emnity with GOD walk by the SPIRIT and you will not fulfill the "LUST" of the flesh.”
>>>>>>>>“" flesh so you are at emnity with GOD walk by the SPIRIT and you will not fulfill the "LUST" of the flesh.”
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply: Gal 5:16 NKJV I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:16 NCV So I tell you: Live by following the Spirit. Then you will not do what your sinful selves want.
Gal 5:16 BIBE But I say, Go on in the Spirit, and you will not come under the rule of the evil desires of the flesh.
There is much misunderstanding over the word “lust” and the word “flesh”. Two Bible version stop using the word, “lust”. New Century Bible and Bible in Basic English.
Some times “lust just means “desire” but many time it means “sinful desire”. Masturbation or sex with a partner is NOT sinful nor evil but a gift from God to enjoy. You have to violate the Law of Love to be evil or sinful. Modern day Masturbation or sex with a partner does not violate the Law of Love.
“Flesh” means “the sin principal” part that humans added to God holy “Human nature”. God holy human nature includes sex and sexual desire as long as it does not violate the Law of love. God design and made “human nature” and “animal nature” and said it was very good and that includes sex drive andsexual desires that does not break the Law of love.
Again you don’t understand the term “flesh” or “lust” as I have already clearly explained it. There are many types of lust or desire. Sexual desires is God designed and good. Remove 100% sexual desire and you have a major problem. Desire after the “sin principal” is opposite of love. Desire after love is good, Desire after hatred is bad. They are the opposite. You assume sexual desire is evil and always apply sexual desire to the word “lust”, which is wrong.
Fruits of the “flesh” (sin principal) war against the fruits of the Spirit “of love”. Since God is love and the whole law is fulfilled in to love your neighbor as you love yourself. The “sin principal” wars against the spirit “of love”. Spirit of “hate”, wars against the spirit “of love”.
But God make our bodies and our sexuality and said it was very good. Our bodies don’t war against God, only the man made “sin principal” part. Sexuality is not evil. We need to apply the “law of love” to our sexuality and not the man made “sin principal” of “non-love”.
God became “flesh” or human body with holy God design “human nature” include sexual desires. God does not war against God. John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh,..
Ge 1:31 - Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. ...(Note: God designed our human nature, every detail of our natural sexuality, and said it was all very good. The only bad part of us is what we added, the "sin principal" part.)
Gal. 5:17 For the flesh (“man made “sin principal” part”) lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh, (“man made “sin principal” part” ) and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh (“man made “sin principal” part”) are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh (“man made “sin principal” part”) with the affections F12 and lusts (“desires to do man made “sin principal” part”). 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous (“desires to do man made “sin principal” part”). of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
Ge 1:31 - Then God saw everything that He had made, (This include sexual human nature) and indeed it was very good. ...(Note: God designed our human nature, every detail of our natural sexuality, and said it was all very good. The only bad part of us is what we added, the "sin principal" part.)
2Co 5:17 - Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
Ga 6:15 - For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.
Joh 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh (a human being without the man made “sin principal” part ), and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Joh 6:51 - I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Ro 8:9 - But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Ro 9:8 - That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Questions for our "guest"
Author:
Rev Dr Sir Randy Kemp
Date Posted: 09:57:21 08/12/02 Mon
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Questions for our guest advocating masterbation
1. Do you agree with the Christian advocating pot at http://www.christiansforcannabis.com/?
2. Why or why not?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Why do you always want to change the subject away from masturbation?
Author:
Inkaboutit
Date Posted: 11:04:54 08/12/02 Mon
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
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If you want to talk about pot, why not start a new thread?
I'm here to expose your lies on masturbation. It may take hundreds of pages to expose all your lies and misconceptions, and misunderstandings on masturbation but I’m ready.
There are a lot more "lust" verse you can misuse, since the only lust you can think of is sexual lust and can't think of the hundreds of other lust it may be reference to.
Also all the "sin" verses you can take out of context, since you make a man made assumption that masturbation is a sin and then go to the Bible and look up all the sin verses.
Also don't forget all those "flesh" verses you can misuse and take out of context. Since you totally misunderstand the different between the "sin principal" and "human nature"
or "old nature" or "nature" or evil nature. These basically all are the man made “sin principal” part of God designed human nature. God designed human and human nature and said it was very good, but human added the man made sin principal part..
Also you are against sexual desire and think it is bad. God designed it and said it was good. If you take away 100% sexual lust you have a major problem big time. All we need to do about our sexual desires is to apply the law of love and resist the man made sin principal of: hatred, un-forgiveness, jealousy, envy, stride, anger, meanest, etc that is against the spirit of love. Spirit of hate wars against the spirit of love.
Mt 5:28 is a major contradiction to God design and you can't see it. You think we should go around cutting off our hands and pluck out our eyes, (you forgot to cut off your feet also) because you don’t know what Jesus was doing there and whom he was talking to. Faulty understanding and context causes, faulty conclusions.
You are ready to condemn 94% of the population, which masturbate, because you force your man made Gnostic heresy into the Bible and misunderstand and take Bible verses out of context
All you friend can do is call names and misuse Bible verses, and all you can do is try to change the subject.
You think you are the holier then thou Godly person. The Pharisees were very strict and make up hundreds of law to put heavy burden on the Jewish people and when John the Baptist and Jesus came they call them the servant of the devil.
Like the Pharisees, you want to put heavy burden on the people from lie from the old Gnostic heresy and force the false Gnostic heresy into the Bible by take Bible verses out of context and misuse the Bible and context.
I have showed you many medical facts, shown you how you have taken verses out of context and shown you other College professor and Christian leader also don't agree with your Gnostic heresy and you copy the Pharisee and call me names.
Lu 7:33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
22 Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached. 23 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.
30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected F22 the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him
Matthew 9:33 And when the devil was cast out, the dumb spake: and the multitudes marvelled, saying, It was never so seen in Israel. 34 But the Pharisees said, He casteth out devils through the prince of the devils.
Matthew 11:16-24
16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, 17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented. 18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. 19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children
Masturbation does not hurt yourself or others or God. If married, seek to meet each other’s sexual needs and if needed, then solo masturbation is fine. But solo masturbation is an offence if you are going solo and your sex partner is always going without sexual satisfaction, then this can become offensive.
Jas 2:12 - So whenever you speak, or whatever you do, remember that you will be judged by the law of love, the law that set you free.
Micah 6:8 The Lord has told you, human, what is good; he has told you what he wants from you: to do what is right to other people, love being kind to others, and live humbly, obeying your God.
2. Gnostic heresy, I have a few web pages that talk about it. I have given them over and over, here they are again
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
The Cause for a great deal of the sexual negativity in our culture. When did sex become bad?
Who, when, and How Sex Was Made A Sin??
The false Gnostic ideal that sex was a sin or evil was forced into the Christian thinking and is kept there by taking the Bible verses out of context.
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
You can see this in the church today. They assume sex is evil and go to the Bible to try to back up their assumptions. They believe masturbation is a sin, so they go to the Bible and find all the sin verses for you. They made man-made assumption then force it into the Bible and take things out of context.
They believe “loving” sexual desire is evil, so they go find all the lust verses for you taken out of context and not thinking that there are many different types of desires, some good and some bad.
They disregard common sense and consistent logic. The context in the Bible was they had a religion the worshiped a fertility god and they used sex to worship this fertility god to get good farm crops.
1000 to 2000 cultic prostitute working for the temple in Corinth. They would seduce people to come and have sex to worship this fertility god and get good farm crops. Sometimes sacrifice the baby as a human sacrifice. Of course this would give sex a bad name and cause confusion of sex in the Bible and make you think sex is evil. God designed sex and said it was very good.
The reasons you can find both sides of the sexual story in the Bible about sexuality are because humans are biases sexually. Some have lower hormone and lower desire for sex and other have a higher hormone level with a higher desire biases. The lower hormone want to past judgment on the higher sex drive people and think of themselves as more spiritual because God gave them lower sex drive. And they want to control the higher sex drive. Person to brainwash them to act and think like them. To understand this study “E” and “P” relationships.
Personal built in sexual biases in the Bible.
There are at least 40 different human authors in the Bible. For example, David (man after God own heart) and Solomon (wise man) may have a high sex drive (read Song of Solomon and the complete story of David) and Paul has a low sex drive (don’t care about sex or marriage or wanting a women).
So if you only study Paul’s writings then you will assume all people should have a low sex drive like Paul. But if you research the whole Bible you see both sides and that God loves both high sexes drive person and the low sex drive person.
But the Church drives high sex drive away from the Church and creates this man made assumption that sexual lust is evil. And that sexual fantasies and thoughts are evil. So how can someone research sexuality properly because they may get a lustful sexy thought and be evil for it?
So we cannot even talk openly about masturbation in public in fear of condemnation from you “holier then thou”. So people walk around self-condemning themselves to the point of major depression and suicide. You do not doing proper research on masturbation and just past on lies that has been past down to you from 100 years ago.
The lies have been exposed and new medical research shows that masturbation is very healthy for you in many ways. By avoiding masturbation you cause many problems to your self. Masturbation is “one flesh” or sole sex and partner sex is with more then one.
Then you go to the Bible to back up the lies of the past. Using misunderstood verses and verses out of context to support faulty logic and pass lies.
3. You mentioned going to Bible College. Did you complete your degree in theology?
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
There you go again with you degree thing. I have degrees, but so what. Lot of people has degrees to puff up their pride and feel like they are somebody. Why don’t you ask God what he thinks of your degrees? You would do much better if you got rid of the “Rev” and “Dr.” all you are doing is puffing up your pride. God bring down the pride and exults the humble.
4. Have you always held your views on masterbation and Christianity, or did you come to your conclusions gradually?
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
It was very gradually and needed a lot of prayer and research to overcome all the lies and had to research all the verses taken out of context by the Church for so many years. (It all started when I when on a Christian forum like your and they were condemning masturbation like you all.) I was like you, brainwashed and assume my “leaders” had to be right. But wrong assumption can have you come up with wrong conclusions.
I have been on other forums exposing the lies about masturbation and faulty logic and no one can beat the truth. The truth will overcome lies. You don’t have a chance against me on masturbation because you are defending past lies, if you were defending truth, God would give you all the answers and no one could stand against you. My boldness is for truth and exposing past lies and having the lies stop hurting people and torment them with man made guilt trip.
You think you may have me out numbered, but I question that, in people’s heart they know you are wrong about masturbation, but can’t figure out how to answer you. They don’t have enough Bible research and it takes a lot of prayer to get to the truth. Most people don’t do either. You assume your teachers taught you right. You assume that just because 2 million people agree with you that you must be right. Does that mean the religion with the most people is the right religion? They have teachers with degrees, so they must be right. Does that mean the person with the highest degrees is right? Martin Luther was one man exposing lies; he went against men with degrees and closed minds.
I put a lot on my web pages like an open book, so you can correct me. Come on the www.libchrist.com forum and correct them also. Search on “inkaboutit4u.com”.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: More simple questions
Author: Rev Dr Sir Randy Kemp
Date Posted: 10:14:42 08/13/02 Tue
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Thank you, Tom, for sharing more of yourself and how you obtained your views. I am sure you realize that the majority of Christians would disagree with you. If you study the bible, I suggest you (and others on this forum) compare your commentary on Bible passages you quote with some classical commentaries, such as those found at http://bible.crosswalk.com/
Randy
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Survey show that the silence majority agrees with me and not you.
Author: inkaboutit4u.com
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
Date Posted: 09:00:38 08/14/02 Wed
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>>>>>>“I am sure you realize that the majority of Christians would disagree with you.
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
Reply: You might be surprised. What survey have you taken to prove your statement? The “silence majority” agrees with me and not you. Do you think 43% is a majority? After you let people see both sides of the story to judge for themselves. Why don’t you take a survey at your Church? . If you brainwash people to only see one side of the story and make their conclusion with only a small faction of the facts, then you come up with wrong conclusions.
Part of: http://inkaboutit4u.com
(This false statement) Religion doesn't play an inhibiting role anymore; people are still practicing their faith and not having conflicts between the religion and masturbation: Research would tend to disagree with any statement that says religion is no longer negatively influencing the ability of humans to explore and enjoy, guilt-free, their sexuality (particularly sex play enjoyed in solitary). The Janus Report on American sexuality shows a direct correlation between religious preference and participation in masturbation. In answer to the survey statement, "Masturbation is a natural part of life and continues on in marriage," 63% of Protestants and 67% of Catholics either agreed or strongly agreed. However, this contrasts with 75% of Jewish respondents who agree or strongly agree and 77% of respondents with no religion. Protestants and Catholics who disagreed with the statement were twice as numerous as those who were Jewish or had no religion. Interestingly, the Janus report found that enjoyment of masturbation was much more prevalent in the West and Northeast parts of the U.S. than in the Midwest or South where church going is more popular. Survey findings in Sex in America do not cover relationships between masturbation and religion but there is one survey question, relating to masturbation and guilt (page 167), which reveals that masturbators are more often than not subject to guilt when they pleasure themselves. Guilt, as we know, is often, if not usually, associated with religious training.
>>>>>>“I suggest you (and others on this forum) compare your commentary on Bible passages you quote with some classical commentaries”
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
Reply: Man made commentaries, people taught to think just like you, who have the same teachers that you had. One teacher can spread misinformation onto many. Why not present both side of the story and all the facts and let people make up their own mind. There are always close mind people, but there are many open-minded people who are still looking for truth with a humble heart.
Should people also learn about The Salem Witch Hunts? These “Christians” thought they were obedience to the word of God by killing people in their own Church. Where is the Law of love?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Survey show that the silence majority agree with me and not you.
Author: Rev Dr Sir Randy Kemp
Date Posted: 09:38:51 08/14/02 Wed
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Tom
If the majority of people surveyed agreed the moon is made of green cheese and the earth is flat, does the survey results make these statements true?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Survey show that the silence majority agree with me and not you.
Author:
Rev Dr Sir Randy Kemp
Author Host/IP: wwwgate2.motorola.com / 129.188.33.222
Date Posted: 09:56:34 08/14/02 Wed
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Tom
Did it ever occur to you that the Janus report might be surveying people who were predisposed to answering the questions affirmatively? Have they shared their statistical error information for everyone to view? Being trained in statistics myself, I would question any survey until I examined the raw data and the stastistical analysis conducted. How large a sample did they survey? What regions of the US or the world did they question? How did they conduct the survey? Just people just go to their web site? Then people may be predisposed to answering questions a certain way. Just like people would be predisposted to answering the survey a certain way if you hosted it at your web site.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Survey show that the silence majority agree with me and not you.
Author: Rev Dr Sir Randy Kemp
Date Posted: 10:07:55 08/14/02 Wed
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Go to www.amazon.com - select books - type in "How to Lie with Statistics" - then read the reader reviews
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Matthew 5:28-30 Pluck out your eyes and cut off you hands if you masturbate???
Author: inkaboutit
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Date Posted: 10:27:39 08/14/02 Wed
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Another survey that may be related to this.
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
Decision did a Christian teen survey between ages 11 and 15 and 75% of them felt defeated in trying to be a Christian. They felt the Christian life was not working for them or they could not live up to the Christian life standard.
Masturbation was not mention, but what is going on in a teen’s life, who just learning to masturbate and the Church puts this major guilt trip on them because they have a normal healthy sex drive and every time they masturbate they feel like a total failure. Does this have anything to do with there feeling like a failure in the Christian life?
This is what your false teaching on masturbation is doing. By the time they reach College they masturbate more, have stronger hormones and felt major guilt trip from you because they stop masturbating, so they give up and leave the Church.
Thank you for your major guilt trip put on teens and pushing people away from the Church and away from God. God will hold you accountable. Make sure you are 100% correct about you teaching on masturbation. Maybe you should prayer and ask God to show you the truth before every teen leaves the Church.
Or is your goal to just have them commit suicide like this Mormon boy did? How can you love God or other when you are full of self-hate because you masturbate? Also like one of the Bible College Student bleed to death after he ax off his hand. He was just doing what he read in the Bible at face valve. Who needs common sense? Who needs to understand the proper context? When just reading it at face value and doing it. At what point do you say maybe we don’t understand the context clearly. Are you going to tell all Bible College Students if they masturbate to go ax their hands off???? That’s what the Bible says?? Matt 5:28-30
This is what your faulty logic causes. Maybe you should pluck your eyes out first, because after you bleed to death by ax off your hands you are unable pluck you eyes out.
The context in the Bible, they would cut themselves for sinning to let out the evil spirit. Maybe Jesus was just doing a “one up” on them. Why just cut yourself, why not do a good job and just cut off your hands and pluck out your eye while you are at it. Should we also cut ourselves to let the “evil spirits” out? They were still doing that 100 years ago in America. It was called “bleeding”.
How many hours of prayer and researching the context of Matt 5:28-30 have you done???
Part of: http://www.proaxis.com/~solo/hustl.htm
Sin & Death in Mormon Country: A Latter-day Tragedy
By Mark A. Taylor*
On March 2, 1982, Kip Eliason, age 16, distraught and filled with self-hate over his inability to stop masturbating, committed suicide. Before asphyxiating himself, Kip left his father a note:
"Dear Dad,
"I love you more than what words can say. If it were possible, I would stay alive for only you, for I really only have you. But it isn't possible. I must first love myself, and I do not. The strange feeling of darkness and self-hate overpowers all my defenses. I must unfortunately yield to it. This turbulent feeling is only for a few to truly understand. I feel that you do not comprehend the immense feeling of serf-hatred I have. This is the only way I feel that I can relieve myself of these feelings now. Carry on with your life and be happy. I love you more than words can say.
"--Your son, Kip
Kip Eliason's five-year struggle to overcome masturbation started at age 11 when his grandmother persuaded him to join the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Part of: http://www.users.bigpond.com/b-u-a/masturba.htm
"I don't believe a loving God would put a raging fire in an immature kid and then damn him for doing what he can't help doing"Dr James Dobson "Focus on the Family"(5)
Surveys have consistently shown that more than 95% of males engage in masturbation, particularly during adolescence. (Some say the remainders are lying!) Dr Dobson of "Focus on the Family" notes that there is absolutely no controversy on these figures from any source!
Dr James Dobson from "Focus on the Family" writes: "It is my opinion that masturbation is not much of an issue with God. It is a normal part of adolescence, which involves no one else. It does not cause disease. It does not produce babies, and Jesus did not mention it in the Bible. I'm not telling you to masturbate, and I hope you won't feel the need for it. But if you do, it is my opinion that you should not struggle with guilt over it. Why do I tell you this? Because I deal with so many Christian young people who are torn apart with guilt over masturbation; they want to stop and just can't. I would like to help you avoid that agony." (5)
Dr James Dobson in his video "Peer Pressure and Sexuality" explains that over time, the hormonal pressure inside a boy can increase to the point where even a girl simply walking into the room can trigger off an irreversible chain of events in his mind. The desire for sexual expression becomes so strong that he invariably masturbates resulting in the hormonal pressure then dropping again.
Over time, the sexual pressure builds again and the boy will feel compelled to express the sexual pressure in his body again no matter how strong his determination was to 'never do it again'. (Paraphrased from the video) The best advice seems to be that if a boy finds the need to masturbate, then to accept it as a normal part of his being.
Dr. James Dobson says that boys from Christian / church backgrounds often have additional problems with masturbation. Since boys from these backgrounds are taught that there is an after-life and they will be held accountable for their life here on earth, many become plagued with unrelenting guilt over masturbation.
He goes on to say that many boys (including Christians) find masturbation absolutely uncontrollable. The boy feels he has sinned and asks God to forgive him and promises not to do it again. Sooner or later though, the accumulating hormonal pressure becomes all encompassing and he will find he is unable to keep his promise to God.
What does a boy say to God on the 300th time he has failed to live up to his promise to stop? This boy is in incredible pain. He feels bad about himself and "those" thoughts and guilt that don't stop even when he is church! The pain becomes so great that we lose the young man to the church and to God because he simply has to escape from it.
Dr Dobson summarizes with the statement: "Masturbation is all encompassing!" Boys and parents need to understand that masturbation (in Dr. Dobson's words) "is a inevitable developmental stage - it is going to happen!" He concludes with the statement: "If it happens to you, I wouldn't worry too much about it because I don't think it has much to do with your relationship to God"
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Read my previous posts on surveys
Author: Rev Dr Sir Randy Kemp
Date Posted: 11:03:42 08/14/02 Wed
Please read my previous posts regarding surveys and statistics.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Matthew 5:28-30 Pluck out your eyes and cut off you hands if you masturbate???
Author: Rev Dr Sir Randy Kemp
Date Posted: 11:07:19 08/14/02 Wed
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Go to http://bible.crosswalk.com/ and see what the classic commentaries say regarding these passages.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Who needs the Holy Spirit to Guide us into truth when we have man made commentaries.
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
Author: inkaboutit
Date Posted: 12:42:11 08/14/02 Wed
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>>>>Go to http://bible.crosswalk.com/ and see what the classic commentaries say regarding these passages.
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
Reply: That is why we are in the trouble we are today. You run to the “almighty” commentaries and think it is the Holy Spirit that will Guide you into all truth. You stop praying over the Bible verses and assume the commentaries are right. Because how could the commentaries be wrong? Isn’t the commentaries God Himself??? Or just another sexually bias human being. We are to seek the Holy Spirit to guide us into truth.
What commentaries did Martin Luther read when he decided the Church was wrong??
Maybe you should go back and tell Martin Luther to stop thinking for himself and go along with the crowd and copy all his teachers. I guess you are Catholic because you would not be a Martin Luther and think for yourself.
You would be a good leader in any religion, because you would just read all the religion commentaries and be happy. Forget the Holy Spirit that Guides you into truth when you have commentaries to guide you.
I guess with commentaries we don’t need God anymore to lead us into truth.
Maybe he went to the same College you went to. Maybe he copied his teacher like you have. Maybe no one ask God for truth and assumed they had it by figured it out by themselves without God help. All you have to do it read it at face value.
I disagree with you and whoever wrote the commentary. I know, now you will tell me that the commentaries are inspired by God. You know all religions have their own commentaries written by their own religions.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Who needs the Holy Spirit to Guide us into truth when we have man made commentaries.
Author: Rev Dr Sir Randy Kemp
Date Posted: 12:56:28 08/14/02 Wed
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The problem comes in when person A's guidance by the Holy Spirit conflicts with person B's guidance by the Holy Spirit. Especially when they teach things that contradict each other. And if we had a million or billion Christians, each claiming guidance by the Holy Spirit, and each teaching different things, how can we tell who is getting the correct understanding of what the Holy Spirit is saying?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Who needs the Holy Spirit to Guide us into truth when we have man made commentaries.
Author: inkaboutit
Date Posted: 13:26:36 08/14/02 Wed
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
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Sometimes we have to humble ourselves and wrestle with God for truth and insight and have an open mind to receive it. How can God change a closed mind? How do we overcome any false brain washing we get? I'm still searching for truth. I still have an open mind seek for anyone to come up with a valid argument against masturbation. I'm still looking. The more I look and put myself in the lion den the more truth I find.
Name-calling does not bother me, I expect it. At least I get you thinking and maybe you will not take your teachings for granted. God will guide you into truth if you want it. But you have to want it with a humble heart and open mind.
Jacob wrestles with God and would not let him go until he got a blessing from God. I try to the same thing with truth.
I spend hour’s wrestle with God to get truth and after I get it I still wrestle with God to test the truth and I go in the lion den to test it.
I do not have all the answers and I’m always looking for truth and will keep wrestling with God to get it.
I use audiotapes of the Bible and play it over and over 2 to 4 hour a day (at times) praying as I listen to it asking God questions and I expect an answer. I ask a lot of why questions and if this then why that. I wrestle with God over truth.
That does not mean I have truth and you do not. I know anyone can be deceived including myself. If we have a closed mind how can we learn anything? If we are afraid to get into a lion den and test truth, then how do we know we have truth? Truth always beat a lie. If I have truth no one can stand up to me. God is truth. No one can stand up against God and win.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Closed vs open mind
Author: Rev Dr Sir Randy Kemp
Date Posted: 13:32:07 08/14/02 Wed
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How can we determine who has the "closed" and who has the "open" mind, when two people have opposite viewpoints and neither one is changing their position?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Wasting time
Author: Rev Dr Sir RandyKemp
Is masturbation a sin? It is very clear that masturbation is very healthy and a gift of God. Just like sexuality is a gift of God. The same sexual: lust, fantasies, thoughts, are use in both. NOT any 40+ Bible writers or Jesus called masturbation a sin.
Author:
Inkaboutit
http://inkaboutit4u.com/?p=Debate_1_on_Masturbation_forum_Inkaboutit_Reply
Date Posted: 09:21:46 08/12/02 Mon
Masturbation Debate Online Forum Part 2
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>>>>>>>>“inkafool” “inkaidiot” “inkalost.”...
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
Reply:
Just more name-calling. People who have no answers have to resort to name-calling. This is the opposite of the law of love. This is an example of the fruits of the “sin principal”. Also a display of anger and pride. Lack of an open mind to learn truth.
The Jewish leader had the same problem. Jesus tried to show them truth and expose lies. The Jewish leaders pride took over and cause anger and name-calling and put Jesus on the cross. The Jewish leader thought they were obedience to God. They had the majority on their side. They thought they knew all the answers. Anyone who disagreed with them, then, they should be crucified. They had closed minds.
Mt 5:22 - But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
John 13:35 - Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples."
>>>>>>>“Wait a minute what law there is no right or wrong”
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
Reply: We are under the law of love.
Jas 2:12 - So whenever you speak, or whatever you do, remember that you will be judged by the law of love, the law that set you free.
Ro 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Ga 5:14 - For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Gal 5:14 - For the whole law can be summed up in this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
Ro 13:9 - For the commandments against adultery and murder and stealing and coveting – and any other commandment – are all summed up in this one commandment: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
Ga 5:13 - For you have been called to live in freedom – not freedom to satisfy your sinful nature, but freedom to serve one another in love.
Note: this is the "sin principal" part of us. Being unloving, unkind, unforgiving, unthankful, being mean, selfish, rude, etc opposite of 1 Cor 13. God designed the human nature and said it was very good. We added the "sin principal" part.
Ro 13:10 - Love does no wrong to anyone, so love satisfies all of God's requirements.
Ro 13:8 - Pay all your debts, except the debt of love for others. You can never finish paying that! If you love your neighbor, you will fulfill all the requirements of God's law.
Joh 13:35 - Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples."
1Co 16:14 - And everything you do must be done with love.
Ga 5:22 - But when the Holy Spirit controls our lives, he will produce this kind of fruit in us: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness
Jas 2:8 - If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you do well;
1 Corinthians 13: 1 - 13
1 If I could speak in any language in heaven or on earth F63 but didn't love others, I would only be making meaningless noise like a loud gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I had the gift of prophecy, and if I knew all the mysteries of the future and knew everything about everything, but didn't love others, what good would I be? And if I had the gift of faith so that I could speak to a mountain and make it move, without love I would be no good to anybody. 3 If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast about it; F64 but if I didn't love others, I would be of no value whatsoever.
4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5 or rude. Love does not demand its own way. Love is not irritable, and it keeps no record of when it has been wronged. 6 It is never glad about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. 7 Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.
8 Love will last forever, but prophecy and speaking in unknown languages and special knowledge will all disappear. 9 Now we know only a little, and even the gift of prophecy reveals little! 10 But when the end comes, these special gifts will all disappear. 11 It's like this: When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child does. But when I grew up, I put away childish things. 12 Now we see things imperfectly as in a poor mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God knows me now. 13 There are three things that will endure – faith, hope, and love – and the greatest of these is love.
>>>>>>>>>“Also DR. James Dobson doesn't condone masturbation.”
My New Web Site is: http://inkaboutit4u.com
Reply: Part of:
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
"I don't believe a loving God would put a raging fire in an immature kid and then damn him for doing what he can't help doing" Dr. James Dobson "Focus on the Family"(5)
Surveys have consistently shown that more than 95% of males engage in masturbation, particularly during adolescence. (Some say the remainders are lying!) Dr Dobson of "Focus on the Family" notes that there is absolutely no controversy on these figures from any source!
Dr James Dobson from "Focus on the Family" writes: "It is my opinion that masturbation is not much of an issue with God. It is a normal part of adolescence which involves no one else. It does not cause disease. It does not produce babies, and Jesus did not mention it in the Bible. I'm not telling you to masturbate, and I hope you won't feel the need for it. But if you do, it is my opinion that you should not struggle with guilt over it. Why do I tell you this? Because I deal with so many Christian young people who are torn apart with guilt over masturbation; they want to stop and just can't. I would like to help you avoid that agony." (5)
Dr James Dobson in his video "Peer Pressure and Sexuality" explains that over time, the hormonal pressure inside a boy can increase to the point where even a girl simply walking into the room can trigger off an irreversible chain of events in his mind. The desire for sexual expression becomes so strong that he invariably masturbates resulting in the hormonal pressure then dropping again.
Over time, the sexual pressure builds again and the boy will feel compelled to express the sexual pressure in his body again no matter how strong his determination was to 'never do it again'. (paraphrased from the video) The best advice seems to be that if a boy finds the need to masturbate, then to accept it as a normal part of his being.
Dr. James Dobson says that boys from Christian / church backgrounds often have additional problems with masturbation. Since boys from these backgrounds are taught that there is an after-life and they will be held accountable for their life here on earth, many become plagued with unrelenting guilt over masturbation.
He goes on to say that many boys (including Christians) find masturbation absolutely uncontrollable. The boy feels he has sinned and asks God to forgive him and promises not to do it again. Sooner or later though, the accumulating hormonal pressure becomes all encompassing and he will find he is unable to keep his promise to God.
What does a boy say to God on the 300th time he has failed to live up to his promise to stop? This boy is in incredible pain. He feels bad about himself and "those" thoughts and guilt that don't stop even when he is church! The pain becomes so great that we lose the young man to the church and to God because he simply has to escape from it.
Dr Dobson summarizes with the statement: "Masturbation is all encompassing!" Boys and parents need to understand that masturbation (in Dr. Dobson's words) "is a inevitable developmental stage - it is going to happen!" He concludes with the statement: "If it happens to you, I wouldn't worry too much about it because I don't think it has much to do with your relationship to God"
>>>>>>>“set on the things of the flesh so you are at emnity with GOD walk by the SPIRIT and you will not fulfill the "LUST" of the flesh.”
>>>>>>>>“" flesh so you are at emnity with GOD walk by the SPIRIT and you will not fulfill the "LUST" of the flesh.”
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply: Gal 5:16 NKJV I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:16 NCV So I tell you: Live by following the Spirit. Then you will not do what your sinful selves want.
Gal 5:16 BIBE But I say, Go on in the Spirit, and you will not come under the rule of the evil desires of the flesh.
There is much misunderstanding over the word “lust” and the word “flesh”. Two Bible version stop using the word, “lust”. New Century Bible and Bible in Basic English.
Some times “lust just means “desire” but many time it means “sinful desire”. Masturbation or sex with a partner is NOT sinful nor evil but a gift from God to enjoy. You have to violate the Law of Love to be evil or sinful. Modern day Masturbation or sex with a partner does not violate the Law of Love.
“Flesh” means “the sin principal” part that humans added to God holy “Human nature”. God holy human nature includes sex and sexual desire as long as it does not violate the Law of love. God design and made “human nature” and “animal nature” and said it was very good and that includes sex drive andsexual desires that does not break the Law of love.
Again you don’t understand the term “flesh” or “lust” as I have already clearly explained it. There are many types of lust or desire. Sexual desires is God designed and good. Remove 100% sexual desire and you have a major problem. Desire after the “sin principal” is opposite of love. Desire after love is good, Desire after hatred is bad. They are the opposite. You assume sexual desire is evil and always apply sexual desire to the word “lust”, which is wrong.
Fruits of the “flesh” (sin principal) war against the fruits of the Spirit “of love”. Since God is love and the whole law is fulfilled in to love your neighbor as you love yourself. The “sin principal” wars against the spirit “of love”. Spirit of “hate”, wars against the spirit “of love”.
But God make our bodies and our sexuality and said it was very good. Our bodies don’t war against God, only the man made “sin principal” part. Sexuality is not evil. We need to apply the “law of love” to our sexuality and not the man made “sin principal” of “non-love”.
God became “flesh” or human body with holy God design “human nature” include sexual desires. God does not war against God. John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh,..
Ge 1:31 - Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. ...(Note: God designed our human nature, every detail of our natural sexuality, and said it was all very good. The only bad part of us is what we added, the "sin principal" part.)
Gal. 5:17 For the flesh (“man made “sin principal” part”) lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh, (“man made “sin principal” part” ) and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh (“man made “sin principal” part”) are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh (“man made “sin principal” part”) with the affections F12 and lusts (“desires to do man made “sin principal” part”). 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous (“desires to do man made “sin principal” part”). of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
Ge 1:31 - Then God saw everything that He had made, (This include sexual human nature) and indeed it was very good. ...(Note: God designed our human nature, every detail of our natural sexuality, and said it was all very good. The only bad part of us is what we added, the "sin principal" part.)
2Co 5:17 - Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
Ga 6:15 - For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.
Joh 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh (a human being without the man made “sin principal” part ), and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Joh 6:51 - I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Ro 8:9 - But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Ro 9:8 - That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Questions for our "guest"
Author:
Rev Dr Sir Randy Kemp
Date Posted: 09:57:21 08/12/02 Mon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Questions for our guest advocating masterbation
1. Do you agree with the Christian advocating pot at http://www.christiansforcannabis.com/?
2. Why or why not?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Why do you always want to change the subject away from masturbation?
Author:
Inkaboutit
Date Posted: 11:04:54 08/12/02 Mon
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you want to talk about pot, why not start a new thread?
I'm here to expose your lies on masturbation. It may take hundreds of pages to expose all your lies and misconceptions, and misunderstandings on masturbation but I’m ready.
There are a lot more "lust" verse you can misuse, since the only lust you can think of is sexual lust and can't think of the hundreds of other lust it may be reference to.
Also all the "sin" verses you can take out of context, since you make a man made assumption that masturbation is a sin and then go to the Bible and look up all the sin verses.
Also don't forget all those "flesh" verses you can misuse and take out of context. Since you totally misunderstand the different between the "sin principal" and "human nature"
or "old nature" or "nature" or evil nature. These basically all are the man made “sin principal” part of God designed human nature. God designed human and human nature and said it was very good, but human added the man made sin principal part..
Also you are against sexual desire and think it is bad. God designed it and said it was good. If you take away 100% sexual lust you have a major problem big time. All we need to do about our sexual desires is to apply the law of love and resist the man made sin principal of: hatred, un-forgiveness, jealousy, envy, stride, anger, meanest, etc that is against the spirit of love. Spirit of hate wars against the spirit of love.
Mt 5:28 is a major contradiction to God design and you can't see it. You think we should go around cutting off our hands and pluck out our eyes, (you forgot to cut off your feet also) because you don’t know what Jesus was doing there and whom he was talking to. Faulty understanding and context causes, faulty conclusions.
You are ready to condemn 94% of the population, which masturbate, because you force your man made Gnostic heresy into the Bible and misunderstand and take Bible verses out of context
All you friend can do is call names and misuse Bible verses, and all you can do is try to change the subject.
You think you are the holier then thou Godly person. The Pharisees were very strict and make up hundreds of law to put heavy burden on the Jewish people and when John the Baptist and Jesus came they call them the servant of the devil.
Like the Pharisees, you want to put heavy burden on the people from lie from the old Gnostic heresy and force the false Gnostic heresy into the Bible by take Bible verses out of context and misuse the Bible and context.
I have showed you many medical facts, shown you how you have taken verses out of context and shown you other College professor and Christian leader also don't agree with your Gnostic heresy and you copy the Pharisee and call me names.
Lu 7:33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
22 Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached. 23 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.
30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected F22 the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him
Matthew 9:33 And when the devil was cast out, the dumb spake: and the multitudes marvelled, saying, It was never so seen in Israel. 34 But the Pharisees said, He casteth out devils through the prince of the devils.
Matthew 11:16-24
16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, 17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented. 18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. 19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children
Masturbation does not hurt yourself or others or God. If married, seek to meet each other’s sexual needs and if needed, then solo masturbation is fine. But solo masturbation is an offence if you are going solo and your sex partner is always going without sexual satisfaction, then this can become offensive.
Jas 2:12 - So whenever you speak, or whatever you do, remember that you will be judged by the law of love, the law that set you free.
Micah 6:8 The Lord has told you, human, what is good; he has told you what he wants from you: to do what is right to other people, love being kind to others, and live humbly, obeying your God.
2. Gnostic heresy, I have a few web pages that talk about it. I have given them over and over, here they are again
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
The Cause for a great deal of the sexual negativity in our culture. When did sex become bad?
Who, when, and How Sex Was Made A Sin??
The false Gnostic ideal that sex was a sin or evil was forced into the Christian thinking and is kept there by taking the Bible verses out of context.
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
You can see this in the church today. They assume sex is evil and go to the Bible to try to back up their assumptions. They believe masturbation is a sin, so they go to the Bible and find all the sin verses for you. They made man-made assumption then force it into the Bible and take things out of context.
They believe “loving” sexual desire is evil, so they go find all the lust verses for you taken out of context and not thinking that there are many different types of desires, some good and some bad.
They disregard common sense and consistent logic. The context in the Bible was they had a religion the worshiped a fertility god and they used sex to worship this fertility god to get good farm crops.
1000 to 2000 cultic prostitute working for the temple in Corinth. They would seduce people to come and have sex to worship this fertility god and get good farm crops. Sometimes sacrifice the baby as a human sacrifice. Of course this would give sex a bad name and cause confusion of sex in the Bible and make you think sex is evil. God designed sex and said it was very good.
The reasons you can find both sides of the sexual story in the Bible about sexuality are because humans are biases sexually. Some have lower hormone and lower desire for sex and other have a higher hormone level with a higher desire biases. The lower hormone want to past judgment on the higher sex drive people and think of themselves as more spiritual because God gave them lower sex drive. And they want to control the higher sex drive. Person to brainwash them to act and think like them. To understand this study “E” and “P” relationships.
Personal built in sexual biases in the Bible.
There are at least 40 different human authors in the Bible. For example, David (man after God own heart) and Solomon (wise man) may have a high sex drive (read Song of Solomon and the complete story of David) and Paul has a low sex drive (don’t care about sex or marriage or wanting a women).
So if you only study Paul’s writings then you will assume all people should have a low sex drive like Paul. But if you research the whole Bible you see both sides and that God loves both high sexes drive person and the low sex drive person.
But the Church drives high sex drive away from the Church and creates this man made assumption that sexual lust is evil. And that sexual fantasies and thoughts are evil. So how can someone research sexuality properly because they may get a lustful sexy thought and be evil for it?
So we cannot even talk openly about masturbation in public in fear of condemnation from you “holier then thou”. So people walk around self-condemning themselves to the point of major depression and suicide. You do not doing proper research on masturbation and just past on lies that has been past down to you from 100 years ago.
The lies have been exposed and new medical research shows that masturbation is very healthy for you in many ways. By avoiding masturbation you cause many problems to your self. Masturbation is “one flesh” or sole sex and partner sex is with more then one.
Then you go to the Bible to back up the lies of the past. Using misunderstood verses and verses out of context to support faulty logic and pass lies.
3. You mentioned going to Bible College. Did you complete your degree in theology?
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
There you go again with you degree thing. I have degrees, but so what. Lot of people has degrees to puff up their pride and feel like they are somebody. Why don’t you ask God what he thinks of your degrees? You would do much better if you got rid of the “Rev” and “Dr.” all you are doing is puffing up your pride. God bring down the pride and exults the humble.
4. Have you always held your views on masterbation and Christianity, or did you come to your conclusions gradually?
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
It was very gradually and needed a lot of prayer and research to overcome all the lies and had to research all the verses taken out of context by the Church for so many years. (It all started when I when on a Christian forum like your and they were condemning masturbation like you all.) I was like you, brainwashed and assume my “leaders” had to be right. But wrong assumption can have you come up with wrong conclusions.
I have been on other forums exposing the lies about masturbation and faulty logic and no one can beat the truth. The truth will overcome lies. You don’t have a chance against me on masturbation because you are defending past lies, if you were defending truth, God would give you all the answers and no one could stand against you. My boldness is for truth and exposing past lies and having the lies stop hurting people and torment them with man made guilt trip.
You think you may have me out numbered, but I question that, in people’s heart they know you are wrong about masturbation, but can’t figure out how to answer you. They don’t have enough Bible research and it takes a lot of prayer to get to the truth. Most people don’t do either. You assume your teachers taught you right. You assume that just because 2 million people agree with you that you must be right. Does that mean the religion with the most people is the right religion? They have teachers with degrees, so they must be right. Does that mean the person with the highest degrees is right? Martin Luther was one man exposing lies; he went against men with degrees and closed minds.
I put a lot on my web pages like an open book, so you can correct me. Come on the www.libchrist.com forum and correct them also. Search on “inkaboutit4u.com”.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: More simple questions
Author: Rev Dr Sir Randy Kemp
Date Posted: 10:14:42 08/13/02 Tue
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Thank you, Tom, for sharing more of yourself and how you obtained your views. I am sure you realize that the majority of Christians would disagree with you. If you study the bible, I suggest you (and others on this forum) compare your commentary on Bible passages you quote with some classical commentaries, such as those found at http://bible.crosswalk.com/
Randy
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Survey show that the silence majority agrees with me and not you.
Author: inkaboutit4u.com
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
Date Posted: 09:00:38 08/14/02 Wed
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>>>>>>“I am sure you realize that the majority of Christians would disagree with you.
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
Reply: You might be surprised. What survey have you taken to prove your statement? The “silence majority” agrees with me and not you. Do you think 43% is a majority? After you let people see both sides of the story to judge for themselves. Why don’t you take a survey at your Church? . If you brainwash people to only see one side of the story and make their conclusion with only a small faction of the facts, then you come up with wrong conclusions.
Part of: http://inkaboutit4u.com
(This false statement) Religion doesn't play an inhibiting role anymore; people are still practicing their faith and not having conflicts between the religion and masturbation: Research would tend to disagree with any statement that says religion is no longer negatively influencing the ability of humans to explore and enjoy, guilt-free, their sexuality (particularly sex play enjoyed in solitary). The Janus Report on American sexuality shows a direct correlation between religious preference and participation in masturbation. In answer to the survey statement, "Masturbation is a natural part of life and continues on in marriage," 63% of Protestants and 67% of Catholics either agreed or strongly agreed. However, this contrasts with 75% of Jewish respondents who agree or strongly agree and 77% of respondents with no religion. Protestants and Catholics who disagreed with the statement were twice as numerous as those who were Jewish or had no religion. Interestingly, the Janus report found that enjoyment of masturbation was much more prevalent in the West and Northeast parts of the U.S. than in the Midwest or South where church going is more popular. Survey findings in Sex in America do not cover relationships between masturbation and religion but there is one survey question, relating to masturbation and guilt (page 167), which reveals that masturbators are more often than not subject to guilt when they pleasure themselves. Guilt, as we know, is often, if not usually, associated with religious training.
>>>>>>“I suggest you (and others on this forum) compare your commentary on Bible passages you quote with some classical commentaries”
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
Reply: Man made commentaries, people taught to think just like you, who have the same teachers that you had. One teacher can spread misinformation onto many. Why not present both side of the story and all the facts and let people make up their own mind. There are always close mind people, but there are many open-minded people who are still looking for truth with a humble heart.
Should people also learn about The Salem Witch Hunts? These “Christians” thought they were obedience to the word of God by killing people in their own Church. Where is the Law of love?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Survey show that the silence majority agree with me and not you.
Author: Rev Dr Sir Randy Kemp
Date Posted: 09:38:51 08/14/02 Wed
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Tom
If the majority of people surveyed agreed the moon is made of green cheese and the earth is flat, does the survey results make these statements true?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Survey show that the silence majority agree with me and not you.
Author:
Rev Dr Sir Randy Kemp
Author Host/IP: wwwgate2.motorola.com / 129.188.33.222
Date Posted: 09:56:34 08/14/02 Wed
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Tom
Did it ever occur to you that the Janus report might be surveying people who were predisposed to answering the questions affirmatively? Have they shared their statistical error information for everyone to view? Being trained in statistics myself, I would question any survey until I examined the raw data and the stastistical analysis conducted. How large a sample did they survey? What regions of the US or the world did they question? How did they conduct the survey? Just people just go to their web site? Then people may be predisposed to answering questions a certain way. Just like people would be predisposted to answering the survey a certain way if you hosted it at your web site.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Survey show that the silence majority agree with me and not you.
Author: Rev Dr Sir Randy Kemp
Date Posted: 10:07:55 08/14/02 Wed
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Go to www.amazon.com - select books - type in "How to Lie with Statistics" - then read the reader reviews
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Matthew 5:28-30 Pluck out your eyes and cut off you hands if you masturbate???
Author: inkaboutit
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Date Posted: 10:27:39 08/14/02 Wed
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Another survey that may be related to this.
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
Decision did a Christian teen survey between ages 11 and 15 and 75% of them felt defeated in trying to be a Christian. They felt the Christian life was not working for them or they could not live up to the Christian life standard.
Masturbation was not mention, but what is going on in a teen’s life, who just learning to masturbate and the Church puts this major guilt trip on them because they have a normal healthy sex drive and every time they masturbate they feel like a total failure. Does this have anything to do with there feeling like a failure in the Christian life?
This is what your false teaching on masturbation is doing. By the time they reach College they masturbate more, have stronger hormones and felt major guilt trip from you because they stop masturbating, so they give up and leave the Church.
Thank you for your major guilt trip put on teens and pushing people away from the Church and away from God. God will hold you accountable. Make sure you are 100% correct about you teaching on masturbation. Maybe you should prayer and ask God to show you the truth before every teen leaves the Church.
Or is your goal to just have them commit suicide like this Mormon boy did? How can you love God or other when you are full of self-hate because you masturbate? Also like one of the Bible College Student bleed to death after he ax off his hand. He was just doing what he read in the Bible at face valve. Who needs common sense? Who needs to understand the proper context? When just reading it at face value and doing it. At what point do you say maybe we don’t understand the context clearly. Are you going to tell all Bible College Students if they masturbate to go ax their hands off???? That’s what the Bible says?? Matt 5:28-30
This is what your faulty logic causes. Maybe you should pluck your eyes out first, because after you bleed to death by ax off your hands you are unable pluck you eyes out.
The context in the Bible, they would cut themselves for sinning to let out the evil spirit. Maybe Jesus was just doing a “one up” on them. Why just cut yourself, why not do a good job and just cut off your hands and pluck out your eye while you are at it. Should we also cut ourselves to let the “evil spirits” out? They were still doing that 100 years ago in America. It was called “bleeding”.
How many hours of prayer and researching the context of Matt 5:28-30 have you done???
Part of: http://www.proaxis.com/~solo/hustl.htm
Sin & Death in Mormon Country: A Latter-day Tragedy
By Mark A. Taylor*
On March 2, 1982, Kip Eliason, age 16, distraught and filled with self-hate over his inability to stop masturbating, committed suicide. Before asphyxiating himself, Kip left his father a note:
"Dear Dad,
"I love you more than what words can say. If it were possible, I would stay alive for only you, for I really only have you. But it isn't possible. I must first love myself, and I do not. The strange feeling of darkness and self-hate overpowers all my defenses. I must unfortunately yield to it. This turbulent feeling is only for a few to truly understand. I feel that you do not comprehend the immense feeling of serf-hatred I have. This is the only way I feel that I can relieve myself of these feelings now. Carry on with your life and be happy. I love you more than words can say.
"--Your son, Kip
Kip Eliason's five-year struggle to overcome masturbation started at age 11 when his grandmother persuaded him to join the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Part of: http://www.users.bigpond.com/b-u-a/masturba.htm
"I don't believe a loving God would put a raging fire in an immature kid and then damn him for doing what he can't help doing"Dr James Dobson "Focus on the Family"(5)
Surveys have consistently shown that more than 95% of males engage in masturbation, particularly during adolescence. (Some say the remainders are lying!) Dr Dobson of "Focus on the Family" notes that there is absolutely no controversy on these figures from any source!
Dr James Dobson from "Focus on the Family" writes: "It is my opinion that masturbation is not much of an issue with God. It is a normal part of adolescence, which involves no one else. It does not cause disease. It does not produce babies, and Jesus did not mention it in the Bible. I'm not telling you to masturbate, and I hope you won't feel the need for it. But if you do, it is my opinion that you should not struggle with guilt over it. Why do I tell you this? Because I deal with so many Christian young people who are torn apart with guilt over masturbation; they want to stop and just can't. I would like to help you avoid that agony." (5)
Dr James Dobson in his video "Peer Pressure and Sexuality" explains that over time, the hormonal pressure inside a boy can increase to the point where even a girl simply walking into the room can trigger off an irreversible chain of events in his mind. The desire for sexual expression becomes so strong that he invariably masturbates resulting in the hormonal pressure then dropping again.
Over time, the sexual pressure builds again and the boy will feel compelled to express the sexual pressure in his body again no matter how strong his determination was to 'never do it again'. (Paraphrased from the video) The best advice seems to be that if a boy finds the need to masturbate, then to accept it as a normal part of his being.
Dr. James Dobson says that boys from Christian / church backgrounds often have additional problems with masturbation. Since boys from these backgrounds are taught that there is an after-life and they will be held accountable for their life here on earth, many become plagued with unrelenting guilt over masturbation.
He goes on to say that many boys (including Christians) find masturbation absolutely uncontrollable. The boy feels he has sinned and asks God to forgive him and promises not to do it again. Sooner or later though, the accumulating hormonal pressure becomes all encompassing and he will find he is unable to keep his promise to God.
What does a boy say to God on the 300th time he has failed to live up to his promise to stop? This boy is in incredible pain. He feels bad about himself and "those" thoughts and guilt that don't stop even when he is church! The pain becomes so great that we lose the young man to the church and to God because he simply has to escape from it.
Dr Dobson summarizes with the statement: "Masturbation is all encompassing!" Boys and parents need to understand that masturbation (in Dr. Dobson's words) "is a inevitable developmental stage - it is going to happen!" He concludes with the statement: "If it happens to you, I wouldn't worry too much about it because I don't think it has much to do with your relationship to God"
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Read my previous posts on surveys
Author: Rev Dr Sir Randy Kemp
Date Posted: 11:03:42 08/14/02 Wed
Please read my previous posts regarding surveys and statistics.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Matthew 5:28-30 Pluck out your eyes and cut off you hands if you masturbate???
Author: Rev Dr Sir Randy Kemp
Date Posted: 11:07:19 08/14/02 Wed
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Go to http://bible.crosswalk.com/ and see what the classic commentaries say regarding these passages.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Who needs the Holy Spirit to Guide us into truth when we have man made commentaries.
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
Author: inkaboutit
Date Posted: 12:42:11 08/14/02 Wed
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>>>>Go to http://bible.crosswalk.com/ and see what the classic commentaries say regarding these passages.
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
Reply: That is why we are in the trouble we are today. You run to the “almighty” commentaries and think it is the Holy Spirit that will Guide you into all truth. You stop praying over the Bible verses and assume the commentaries are right. Because how could the commentaries be wrong? Isn’t the commentaries God Himself??? Or just another sexually bias human being. We are to seek the Holy Spirit to guide us into truth.
What commentaries did Martin Luther read when he decided the Church was wrong??
Maybe you should go back and tell Martin Luther to stop thinking for himself and go along with the crowd and copy all his teachers. I guess you are Catholic because you would not be a Martin Luther and think for yourself.
You would be a good leader in any religion, because you would just read all the religion commentaries and be happy. Forget the Holy Spirit that Guides you into truth when you have commentaries to guide you.
I guess with commentaries we don’t need God anymore to lead us into truth.
Maybe he went to the same College you went to. Maybe he copied his teacher like you have. Maybe no one ask God for truth and assumed they had it by figured it out by themselves without God help. All you have to do it read it at face value.
I disagree with you and whoever wrote the commentary. I know, now you will tell me that the commentaries are inspired by God. You know all religions have their own commentaries written by their own religions.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Who needs the Holy Spirit to Guide us into truth when we have man made commentaries.
Author: Rev Dr Sir Randy Kemp
Date Posted: 12:56:28 08/14/02 Wed
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The problem comes in when person A's guidance by the Holy Spirit conflicts with person B's guidance by the Holy Spirit. Especially when they teach things that contradict each other. And if we had a million or billion Christians, each claiming guidance by the Holy Spirit, and each teaching different things, how can we tell who is getting the correct understanding of what the Holy Spirit is saying?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Who needs the Holy Spirit to Guide us into truth when we have man made commentaries.
Author: inkaboutit
Date Posted: 13:26:36 08/14/02 Wed
Inkaboutit4u.com Reply:
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Sometimes we have to humble ourselves and wrestle with God for truth and insight and have an open mind to receive it. How can God change a closed mind? How do we overcome any false brain washing we get? I'm still searching for truth. I still have an open mind seek for anyone to come up with a valid argument against masturbation. I'm still looking. The more I look and put myself in the lion den the more truth I find.
Name-calling does not bother me, I expect it. At least I get you thinking and maybe you will not take your teachings for granted. God will guide you into truth if you want it. But you have to want it with a humble heart and open mind.
Jacob wrestles with God and would not let him go until he got a blessing from God. I try to the same thing with truth.
I spend hour’s wrestle with God to get truth and after I get it I still wrestle with God to test the truth and I go in the lion den to test it.
I do not have all the answers and I’m always looking for truth and will keep wrestling with God to get it.
I use audiotapes of the Bible and play it over and over 2 to 4 hour a day (at times) praying as I listen to it asking God questions and I expect an answer. I ask a lot of why questions and if this then why that. I wrestle with God over truth.
That does not mean I have truth and you do not. I know anyone can be deceived including myself. If we have a closed mind how can we learn anything? If we are afraid to get into a lion den and test truth, then how do we know we have truth? Truth always beat a lie. If I have truth no one can stand up to me. God is truth. No one can stand up against God and win.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Closed vs open mind
Author: Rev Dr Sir Randy Kemp
Date Posted: 13:32:07 08/14/02 Wed
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How can we determine who has the "closed" and who has the "open" mind, when two people have opposite viewpoints and neither one is changing their position?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Wasting time
Author: Rev Dr Sir RandyKemp