Evolution god is a fake and a lie disagree with Libchrist

I agree with Libchrist.com on many things. But a few things I disagree.

Also, Check out: http://inkaboutit4u.com/?p=Web_Pages_List

I am anti-Abortion, the intentional killing of a baby in the women's womb.

 

 Also, I do not believe in evolution. Evolution is a total lie. God created all things, evolution created NOTHING. Everything proves God’s creation daily, NOTHING supports evolution but lies. 100% fossil record support a creator God. NOTHING support evolution at all. Evolution is a “god” of atheist and other anti-Creator God people. Don't fall for that lie.

 

God made HIS creation Evolution proof. Evolution “god” created NOTHING but lies, because the evolution god is not real, Just like all the other fake pagan gods, they are not real either.

 

 

Liberated: their are so many articles= http://www.libchrist.com/other/abortion/contents.html

 

Biblical Overview Of Abortion Issue

Some anti-women's choice advocates quote Bible verses about murder that have nothing to do with abortion.

Biological birth begins at conception. But a pig is just as much biologically alive and we don't stop eating ham!

The difference in humans is the soul God gives at BIRTH. This is clearly both the biblical Christian view and even more clearly and strongly the Jewish view.

 

****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

At conception human becomes body, soul and spirit. All design in the unique DNA because of the combine of the sperm and the egg.  When male sperm joins with Female egg,  you become you. The only thing left is growth. Then when you out grow your mother’s womb you come out into the world, but you just continue to grow. Your life , your being – body, soul, and spirit started at conception. **********************************************************

 

Why in the world any Christian would try and claim abortion of a soulless fetus is wrong is beyond me.

 

****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

Fetus is NOT Soulless. ---Body, Soul and spirit started at conception. Your body, soul, spirit is all very unique parts of you and who you are as an  individual person. Your unique DNA that make you, unique you, different from anyone else.

 

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But its about choice. The women's choice which of course means abortion is a legitimate, legal choice and Christians as well as Jews should support that choice. Lets see what the Bible really says about it:

The Bible often identifies life with "breath", (Gen. 2:7) suggesting that life begins at birth, not conception. This has traditionally been the view of Jewish Biblical scholars. For example Ezekiel 37:1-14 suggests this which is consistent with Genesis 2:7. Adam did not become a "living soul" until the "breath of life" entered his nostrils AFTER his body was formed. Other examples are in Joshua 10:40, 1 Kings 15:29 and many others where "breath" is treated as a synonym for "life". In biblical terms it seems clear that life begins at birth, not conception.

 

****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

This is taken out context. The context of Gen 2:7 is that Adam is a “pile of dirt”. We would all agree a “pile of dirt” does not have a soul, not have life, not have a spirit. A “pile of dirt” clearly is NOT alive. NO life in a “pile of dirt”. Life and soul and spirit begin for Adam when God “breaded” life into the “pile of dirt” or “pile of clay” he formed into Adam shape.

 

A fetus on the other hand,  has it’s life, spirit, soul begin at conception. It is breading air from the mother through the babies own  Blood, air transfer from the mother’s bloodto the baby inside of her. The mother breaths in air and the baby gets that air.

If the mother stopped breathing air, both the mother and baby will die for lack of air.

 

Only Adam became the first living person, because, before the God breath of life, he was not a living person but only a “pile of dead dirt”.

 

The Baby is alive at conception, before conception there is no human being only a separate sperm and a separate female egg, no human being. Your life begin at conception, not at birth. **************************************************************************

Ex 21:22-23 makes it quite clear that the death of fetus is not murder. When in the course of a brawl, a man knocks against a pregnant women so that she has a miscarriage but suffers no further harm (other than the death of the fetus), then the offender must pay whatever fine the woman's husband demands after assessment."

 

****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

This is an unintentional accident,  not an intentional murder. Abortion is not an accident, but the Doctor is trying hard to kill the living baby on purpose, not an accident. That is intentional premeditated murder.

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The reason for the payment for miscarriage has to do with the women being the property of her husband. In fact the husband probably had many wives or concubines. A mans status was based on the number of children he had (especially sons). Women were considered breeders, thus the widespread use of concubines, that God never spoke against but seems to have accepted just like polygamy and adultery was only wrong for a married women, never a married man.

Early first trimester abortion seems less of an evil than a man knocking a pregnant women who may have been far further along in pregnancy.

 

****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

 

Abortion is NOT an unintentional accident, but abortion is intentional premeditated murder of a living baby. Look at the time line of a “fetus or baby in the womb, you see by the first trimester everything is formed and present for the Baby mainly after that is just need more growth to get everything bigger.

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This doesn't mean that abortion would have been acceptable to Hebrews since many of their laws were set up to increase fertility. But they would not have considered it murder.

 

****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

 

Ex 21:22-23 NOT murder because it is an unintentional accidental death. NO murder.

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Today we have too many unwanted children and we have learn way too well how to be fruitful and multiple.

 

****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

NOT true.---- At any given time there are 2 million people wanting to adopt a baby. The gov’t make it hard for them to adoption. Many babies adaption fail because the birth mother changes their mind and wants to keep the baby.

 

There are NO unwanted babies. Most women want their babies, but many times some male is trying to get the women to get rid of her baby mainly for money reasons.

 

In China because the gov’t forces all to only have one baby the people abort all the female babies so they can all have a male son to carry on their family name. So if a whole country only has males, who is going to make the babies? Real smart! ******************************************************

 

We now need to control and reduce world population - the opposite of Hebrew times.

 

****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

Another lie. The world is NOT overpopulated. Another lie from communist.  There is a web page where a person shows that everyone in the whole world could all live in the state of Texas and still have room to grow crops.  We are not overpopulated, just get on any airplane and you can easily see all the open spaces we have all over the earth. In Utah on the road it says the next exit is in 100 miles away. NO one lives in that 100 mile of space.

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Even more clear is Numbers 5:21 where God shows letting the fetus die is proper as a punishment of the mother. This is clearly intentional not the accidental event in Exodus.

****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

God is God,  we are NOT God.  We are human and do not have the right to kill innocent babies.

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The only NT scripture dealing with abortion is Matthew 26:24 which suggests that it would have been better if Judas had not been born! Note the word is "BORN", not "conceived". The only way to have prevented Judas from being born would have been an abortion. Interesting that abortion is suggested as possibly good here!

****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

That statement does not support abortion is any way.

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Luke 1:15 says he was filled with the Holy Spirit from the moment of birth.

****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

Luk 1:15 (KJV) For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Luk 1:15 (NLT)  for he will be great in the eyes of the Lord. He must never touch wine or hard liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even before his birth.

Luke 1:15 CEB

for he will be great in the Lord's eyes. He must not drink wine and liquor. He will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before his birth.

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Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God who separated me from my mothers womb, and called me by His grace... seems the calling was after the separation from the womb. . Or Luke 7:28; Among those who will be born of women there shall not be a greater prophet... (KJ)

supports born. Birth is the important point of being a soul, conception is simply first step if not interrupted by normal miscarriage or chosen abortion.

****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

This does not support abortion in any way. It does not say a Baby fetus is not alive. Life begins at conception. At birth the Baby just separates from the mother. But the Baby started it’s  life at conception not at birth. Adam started life when God breath life, and soul, and spirit into Adam this is the first life.  Adam did not come from a living fetus but from a dead pile of dirt which God formed his body outside shape.  The pile of dirt did not have any internal  body organs in the dirt.

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Jeremiah 1:5 says God knew Jeremiah "BEFORE I formed thee". Indicates life begins BEFORE conception! Of course, this whole verse is just a figure of speech indicating that God had foreknowledge that Jeremiah would be a profit just like other passages show foreknowledge was has nothing to do with the abortion issue.

****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

At conception you are NOT formed. At conception it is the combining of sperm and egg. It has not been formed into a human being yet.

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Psalms 139: 13-16 is not talking about a relationship with God while in the womb. It is a poetic verse talking about how God is all knowing. It reveals that God knows all and that God made us in the womb. But God also knew us in our father's loins and even before the world was created. This has nothing to do with abortion. We all know that God knows all and that God made all things. God knew which fetuses will be born (about 50% miscarriage or otherwise die naturally) You can not twist this to mean that God is saying it is wrong to have an abortion. He would have known the fetus didn't make it and was never born.

****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

This statement does not support abortion in any way.

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Luke 1:41,44 has nothing to do with abortion. Elizabeth was six months pregnant. Babies leap in the womb at six months and can be viable. This is beyond the point abortions are done except in rare emergencies.

****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

This statement does not support abortion in any way.  No abortion at any time is acceptable 2 million people want to adopt that baby. Many abortion have been done even when the baby is full term (partial birth abortions) and body of baby sticking outside the womb and only the head inside,  they kill the baby brain so kills the Baby and call that an abortion.

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Psalms 94 likewise has nothing to do with abortion, but does have a lot to do with using the Bible to instill fear and intimidate others who disagree with you.

****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

This statement does not support abortion in any way.

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Note in Gen 25:22 Jacob and Esau "struggled together" in Rebekahs womb. Does this mean they also had personalities that fought before birth? Hardly. Rebekah simply experienced a lot of movement in her womb during pregnancy; later when the brother's fought each other she could look back and say that they even fought when they were in her womb.

****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

This statement does not support abortion in any way.

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If you think God is anti-choice, I suggest you are trying to make God what you think He should be, not what He taught. While no scripture condemns abortion, but shows its no big deal, lots of scripture talks about killing both the born and unborn.

 


****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

Abortion is not an accident, but the Doctor is try hard to kill the living baby on purpose, not an accident. That is intentional premeditated murder. Many verses against murder.

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Psalms 137:9 "Happy is he who shall seize your children and dash them against the rock."

****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

This is taken out of context. This does not support abortion. This is referring to God’s enemies. Sometimes God told the Israelites Hebrews to kill all God’s enemies, including all animals, and all humans. Like when they were at war with God’s enemies.  This verse does not support abortion in any way.

Ps 137:7 O LORD, remember what the Edomites did on the day the armies of Babylon captured Jerusalem. "Destroy it!" they yelled. "Level it to the ground!" 8 O Babylon, you will be destroyed. Happy is the one who pays you back for what you have done to us. 9 Happy is the one who takes your babies and smashes them against the rocks!

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II Kings 15:16, all the pregnant women were ripped open to kill the fetus as directed by Menahem, king of Israel 748-738 BC.

****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

This does not support abortion in any way. . 18 But Menahem did what was evil in the LORD's sight. During his entire reign, he refused to turn from the sins of idolatry that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit.

 

16 At that time Menahem destroyed the town of Tappuah and all the surrounding countryside as far as Tirzah, because its citizens refused to surrender the town. He killed the entire population and ripped open the pregnant women. 17 Menahem son of Gadi began to rule over Israel in the thirty-ninth year of King Uzziah's reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria ten years. 18 But Menahem did what was evil in the LORD's sight. During his entire reign, he refused to turn from the sins of idolatry that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit.

 

Numbers 31:17-18 where the virgin women are to be taken by the soldiers for themselves and all the other women and children killed. So much for not killing?

 

****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

This does not support abortion in any way.

This is taken out of context. This does not support abortion. This is referring to God’s enemies. Sometimes in war God told the Israelites Hebrews to kill all God’s enemies, including all animals, and all humans. Like when they were at war with God’s enemies.

 This verse does not support abortion in any way.

But here they kill all who took part in worship of Baal pagan fertility god worship and all males. But 32,000 virgin young girls who did not join in the worship of the pagan fertility god one of Baal many pagan gods were not killed but given to Israelites as concubines as God told them to do.

This promote polygamy and sex with many women, but not abortion.

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Breath = Life is the Biblical View
No matter how emotional fetus loving Christians try and twist scripture to match what they wished it said, the truth is clear: No human life (soul) till first breath at birth. This is the clear biblical view as well as the Jewish view from biblical times and today. There is absolutely nothing in the Bible that says abortion is wrong.

****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

Already talked about this at the first reply. NOTHING here support modern day   abortions.

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The fact the Bible is silent on the issue may be surprising since abortion was very common.

****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

Abortion was not common in the Bible days. They never had the modern day hospital surgery we have today.

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The Bible declares the death penalty for murdering another person but not when a fetus dies since it is not equated with a human person.

Ex 21:22-23 makes it quite clear that the death of fetus is not murder. When in the course of a brawl, a man knocks against a pregnant women so that she has a miscarriage but suffers no further harm (other than the death of the fetus), then the offender must pay whatever fine the woman's husband demands after assessment."

 

****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

This is an unintentional accident,  not murder. Abortion is not an accident, but the Doctor is try hard to kill the living baby on purpose, not an accident. That is intentional premeditated murder.

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****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

There is NO death penalty on accidental death. Only on premeditated murders.

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In Hebrew the word nephesh means both person and breath. Only after a person is born is nephesh used. In James it was said "for just as the body without breath is dead, so faith without works is dead." Likewise, until birth there is no breath and no spirit.

****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

Taken out of context.  NOT talking about creating the first human life from a “pile of dirt”, but is talking about when a living person dies and stops breathing they are dead.

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The Bible does not support anti-choice views. Many Christians realize this. The Religious Coalition For Abortion Rights represents 35 mainline denominations. There phone for information is 202-543-7032. Want is such a tragedy is the number of Christians and others that care so much more for a spiritless fetus, than the women's right to exercise her choice based on HER beliefs, not those of old men in Washington and other trying to act as a pimp over a women's body and trying to justify it by twisting biblical texts.

 
Exodus 21:22 clearly shows the death of the fetus is not equal to taking a life.

Ex 21:22-23 makes it quite clear that the death of fetus is not murder. When in the course of a brawl, a man knocks against a pregnant women so that she has a miscarriage but suffers no further harm (other than the death of the fetus), then the offender must pay whatever fine the woman's husband demands after assessment."

 

****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

This is an unintentional accident,  not murder. Abortion is not an accident, but the Doctor is try hard to kill the living baby on purpose, not an accident. That is intentional premeditated murder.

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Most of the English Bible translations except the NIV make it clear that God shows a fetus is not life. The NIV says "premature birth" and in a note it says miscarriage. The NIV translators got heat from anti-choice people with an agenda to prove life begins at conception, so the translators changed scriptures to their agenda. Others think the NIV translators made an honest mistake, but it is clearly a mistranslation of the Hebrew.

Some Christians argue that the fetus was born alive. Here is more documentation (not just from the NIV) that there is no support for this argument

The New American Standard Bible Says:
"If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide. 23 But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise." Ex. 21:22-25, The New American Standard Bible

The Revised Standard Bible Says:
"When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

God only punishes the guilty person(s) with a fine if the fetus is lost in an accidental miscarriage,
but invokes equal punishment if the woman is injured or killed as a result of the accident. The implication being: 1) the unborn child only has a monetary value to God, 2) the unborn child is not a person, hence their use of the word "fetus," and 3), the woman has infinite value (to her husband) while the fetus has little if any value. The New American Standard and many other English translations validate this position as do many Jewish commentaries.

****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

This does not support abortion. It said that accidental death of the fetus, it is an accident. NOT modern day intentional premeditated  murder killing of a baby in the womb. Totally different then Ex 21:22-23. God puts high valve on babies in and out of the womb.

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The concern is for the woman as another mans property. Notice that it is the woman's husband that collects the fine ( according as the womans husband shall lay upon him). The concern is for the loss of the husbands property, which in this case is the fetus, and any harm to his other property, which is his wife. The fetus is not given any worth in and of itself, and neither is the wife. They are given worth solely because they are considered the husbands property.

****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

Women have much worth to God. To said “The fetus is not given any worth in and of itself, and neither is the wife.” Is very extreme statement. NOT support in the Bible. Read about Esther, Ruth, Rahad, Sarah, Proverb 31, Mary mother of Jesus, many other women in the Bible.

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Do you think that there would have been a fine if she was pregnant and unmarried and this happened to her? No way! You have to really put yourself back then 2000 to 4000 years ago. Women were chattel and children were both life insurance and social security. This is a time when slavery was common and people were considered property, commodities. It is very difficult for people living in modern times to understand the mind set of people back then.

Theologian Millard Erickson notes that in this view, “the lex talionis [life for life] is applied only if the mother is harmed. On this basis it is concluded that the fetus was not considered a soul or a person, and thus is not to be thought of as fully human.” Millard Erickson, Christian Theology (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1985), p. 555.

Further related to the abortion argument there are many other bible passages that are more clearly about abortion and never a word about it being wrong.

****************Inkaboutit4u.com Reply*********************

There are NONE. If there were he and others would have found them.

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Since the passage is in the OT, the Jewish view is also of some value to evaluate the passage:

Jerome's Commentary, a highly respected source explains: "If a pregnant women should suffer a miscarriage as a result of a blow, the guilty party need only make a monetary compensation demanded by her husband; however should the woman die, capital punishment is proscribed for the offender." This is confirmed by the Jewish teachings that abortion is never considered murder. If the fetus had been considered an independent entity, there would have been an life for a life penalty for murder.

The Talmud says that a fetus is its mothers thigh (Hulin 58a and Gittin 23b), and it has no legal rights. Even once the birth process starts the fetus can be destroyed to save the women from physical or mental harm. In order for a fetus to be considered a nefesh adam (a living person), its head must have emerged from the birth canal. Sanhedrin 72b states: it (the fetus) is not a person and therefore its life is inferior to its mothers life.

If it was a live birth the verse would have said something like "Tinoch ha' nolad". "tinoch" being the word for baby or infant. The verse HAS ALWAYS been translated by the Jews to mean miscarriage.

Another more direct abortion example in the Sanhedrin is a discussion of what to do with a pregnant women who has been sentenced to death. They conclude she should be beat on the stomach prior to the execution; thereby preventing her from going into labor. It makes no difference how far along she is, the fetus dies with the mother. "I cite this Halacha because it puts the status of the fetus into a Halachic perspective. Even if it could be viable it has no rights unto itself." - Norman Slurzberg

In Exodus the lost fetus was a property offense only. The fine was required since it deprived the Husband the property rights and value of a future child (to work in fields if boy, or marriage price if girl). Since no life taken, no life for a life penalty only to compensate husband for potential property loss.

Many get caught up in fetal envy emotions and think abortion is terrible and they assume God feels the same way. However, the Bible does not back them up. What they are doing is projecting their own personal belief systems onto God and then claiming Him as an authority to promote THEIR beliefs, not the original Word of God.

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